Easy plants, planning for 75 gal.

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Fish_Bone

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I am trying to lay the plan out for a new 75 gallon. I found a book on plants and they reccomended these plants for the best chance of success.

My questions for right now are, what substrate is beat for plants and kuhli loaches. I have flourite and standards gravel right now. I want sand...but I want a lush planted tank too. What's tour guys thoughts?

And I have decided dry ferts are the best for my budget, but I don't know where to get them and which ones. I have seen the sticky with measurements/ schedule already.

What kind of dividers does takoshi amano use when using 2 or three kinds of sub in a single tank/ layer? Also what is used to create hills or raise rocks under the substrate?

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OrionGirl

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There really won't be something best for both plants and kuhli's. Kuhli's need a soft, rounded substrate, since they will bury themselves. Sand works, if it's the right kind, but flourite will be pretty rough on them. This tendency also means it can be tough to keep plants planted. Gravel and sand won't work well for a 'lushly' planted tank in the traditional sense. Many plants on that list will do well attached to rocks and wood, so you could go with sand and then stick with anubias and java fern, african ferns, etc. If you go with gravel, crypts and swords usually do will--but you'll want to let anything rooted be well established with a large root mass before adding the loaches.
 

ManEatingShrimp

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pool filter sand is pretty smooth and I like it a lot more that gravel because smaller plants grow better, especially those that spread with runners. only down side is you probably need to use root tabs.
 

dougall

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If you want sand, why not flourite sand?

you never really indicated any criteria other than wanting sand, and a planted tank.

or eco complete or something, really depends on the grain size you want, and how much you want to pay.


I expect you could go well with some of the ADA substrate, but I don't have any experience there.
 

asukawashere

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The list you have there probably isn't a good starting point. Some of the plants on there are easy, but I have to wonder what the author was thinking putting downoi of all things on the list. Very finicky, challenging plant, that. I'd be more inclined to place it on a "top 10 most difficult" list than a "10 easiest" one. Otherwise, though, the list isn't too terrible... Riccia isn't difficult to grow, but it does require a lot of light... Rotala sp. 'Colorata' isn't horrible by stem plant standards, but there are easier choices.

Loaches are excellent diggers, and kuhlis in particular will worm (pretty much literally) their way through the substrate and dig up nearly everything. As such, an established tank with well-rooted plants is the best bet. Choose plants that form large root systems, as they're less likely to be uprooted by casual digging.

A better list to work from would be something like the following:

Echinodorus spp. (sword plants)
Cryptocoryne spp. (crypts)
Vallisneria spp. (aka "vals"—jungle, Italian, corkscrew, etc)
Hygrophila corymbosa (a stem plant, but one that tends to be a bit more inclined to dig in with its roots. Comes in several leaf shapes).
Nymphoides aquatica ("banana plants"—these form downright massive root systems)
Nymphaea spp. (dwarf water lilies... delicate at first, but once rooted will spread anchors all over)
Sagittaria subulata (dwarf sag—a good, undemanding choice for the foreground)

Anubias spp., Java ferns (Microsorum pteropus), and mosses (Vesicularia, Taxiphyllum, Fissidens, etc.) are great choices as they can be tied onto rocks and driftwood as opposed to rooted in the substrate, and thus will be out of reach for your kuhli's excavations.

You may want to put a layer of laterite at the very bottom of whatever substrate you choose for an extra iron boost. Plants with larger root systems tend to need extra iron; it's one of the more common deficiencies I see in sword plants, for instance.

Since they dig so much, your loaches do need a soft substrate. Perhaps the best technique would be to use a 1" or so layer of something clay-based (aquasoil, flora base, fluval stratum, etc.) and cap it with a good 2-3" of sand or fine gravel (pool filter sand or fine-grade red flint gravel or something) for the kuhlis to dig in. You get the nutrient layer down at the root level where the plants need them, and enough sand that the digging probably won't upset the substrate too much or kick up a ton of dirt.

As for your question regarding hills, often a layer or two of egg crate (i.e. a plastic grid) is placed under areas where one wants to build the substrate. When pouring adjacent types of substrate, a piece of cardboard or plastic is placed as a divider guideline, substrate is poured on either side, and then the divider is removed. Eventually the two will bleed into each other, though, especially with the activities of the loaches.

You could also try planting some big specimen plants in clay pots with a nutrient-rich substrate, then burying those pots in the sand. It would make them a little harder to dig up, at least.
 

Fish_Bone

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The list you have there probably isn't a good starting point. Some of the plants on there are easy, but I have to wonder what the author was thinking putting downoi of all things on the list. Very finicky, challenging plant, that. I'd be more inclined to place it on a "top 10 most difficult" list than a "10 easiest" one.
Downoi looks like lettuce to me...LOL. Well I am glad you gave me the heads up on this plant being a pain, I am not set on using this list but I do plan on looking pics/ info to see if they fit my wants.

Riccia isn't difficult to grow, but it does require a lot of light... Rotala sp. 'Colorata' isn't horrible by stem plant standards, but there are easier choices.
I will look into these plants to see if I like them and what water parameters they like.

A better list to work from would be something like the following:

Echinodorus spp. (sword plants)
Cryptocoryne spp. (crypts)
Vallisneria spp. (aka "vals"—jungle, Italian, corkscrew, etc)
Hygrophila corymbosa (a stem plant, but one that tends to be a bit more inclined to dig in with its roots. Comes in several leaf shapes).
Nymphoides aquatica ("banana plants"—these form downright massive root systems)
Nymphaea spp. (dwarf water lilies... delicate at first, but once rooted will spread anchors all over)
Sagittaria subulata (dwarf sag—a good, undemanding choice for the foreground)

Anubias spp., Java ferns (Microsorum pteropus), and mosses (Vesicularia, Taxiphyllum, Fissidens, etc.) are great choices as they can be tied onto rocks and driftwood as opposed to rooted in the substrate, and thus will be out of reach for your kuhli's excavations.

yeah these are good idea's concerning the kuhli, I have a few already.

You may want to put a layer of laterite at the very bottom of whatever substrate you choose for an extra iron boost. Plants with larger root systems tend to need extra iron; it's one of the more common deficiencies I see in sword plants, for instance.

Since they dig so much, your loaches do need a soft substrate. Perhaps the best technique would be to use a 1" or so layer of something clay-based (aquasoil, flora base, fluval stratum, etc.) and cap it with a good 2-3" of sand or fine gravel (pool filter sand or fine-grade red flint gravel or something) for the kuhlis to dig in. You get the nutrient layer down at the root level where the plants need them, and enough sand that the digging probably won't upset the substrate too much or kick up a ton of dirt.

As for your question regarding hills, often a layer or two of egg crate (i.e. a plastic grid) is placed under areas where one wants to build the substrate. When pouring adjacent types of substrate, a piece of cardboard or plastic is placed as a divider guideline, substrate is poured on either side, and then the divider is removed. Eventually the two will bleed into each other, though, especially with the activities of the loaches.

You could also try planting some big specimen plants in clay pots with a nutrient-rich substrate, then burying those pots in the sand. It would make them a little harder to dig up, at least.
This gives me something to think about...maybe I will spend sometime on ms paint and try and figure out what my layout is going to look like so I can make the best decision regarding your suggestions.

Does anyone know where I can get plastic grids or other aquascaping tools?
 

OrionGirl

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Egg crate is sold at most home hardware stores. Browse around, most have lots of things that can be repurposed safely. See what is available, take pictures, post, adn get feedback since not everything will be aquarium safe.
 

Fish_Bone

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Oh and I forgot to ask...

I am thinking of getting CO2 since I plan on this being a decently planted tank, would a small setup like the fuval co2 kit work or would I be better off building piece by piece in order to get a unit that will satisfy the tanks size?

Also I see a lot of DIY kits that are just needle valves and solenoid, how do they know they are dosing correctly and parameters? And if these are simple enough to gauge/ setup then what us is a ph controller and any of that high end gear? I am just trying to figure this out before I waste a ton of money.

Also who sells dry ferts on the forum?
 

mesto

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When I researched the fluval kit (88g) it seemed like keeping it stocked in replacement cartridges would be really expensive for my 40B or 30L. I was attracted because it seemed to have all the parts together, but I have to say I suspected it was sort of preying on my n00bness.
 
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