EI Dosing
- Thread starter Xandict
- Start date
The Planted Tank.net forum has a great sticky thread in the fertilizer section, the first stick thread says dosing regime. This would be the first place to learn how to dose.
EI generally means "Each Individual" referring the the compounds used in fertilizers. NPK are the three main components of fertilizers, and are Nitrogen, Phosphate, Potassium. To get these + other essential chemical compounds, One must "dose" EI according to a method/plan, tried and true.
The main ferts one would buy in conjunction with an EI dosing regimen,
1. CSM+B Plantex (otherwise referred to as trace)
2. KNO3 (potassium nitrate) provides Potassium from KNO3, and Nitrate from KNO3 in the same compound.
3. KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) provides phosphate.
4. K2SO4 (potassium sulfate) provides extra potassium.
These are the chemicals needed in EI dosing. I recommend purchasing them from GreenLeafAquariums.com. You can get a starter package that may be easier for you.
Once you have these, follow the directions on the planted tank forum.
One can also obtain MGSO4.7H2O (Magnesium Sulfate) and make PMDD fert, yet this is a science, and mathematically intense.
-Aaron
EI generally means "Each Individual" referring the the compounds used in fertilizers. NPK are the three main components of fertilizers, and are Nitrogen, Phosphate, Potassium. To get these + other essential chemical compounds, One must "dose" EI according to a method/plan, tried and true.
The main ferts one would buy in conjunction with an EI dosing regimen,
1. CSM+B Plantex (otherwise referred to as trace)
2. KNO3 (potassium nitrate) provides Potassium from KNO3, and Nitrate from KNO3 in the same compound.
3. KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) provides phosphate.
4. K2SO4 (potassium sulfate) provides extra potassium.
These are the chemicals needed in EI dosing. I recommend purchasing them from GreenLeafAquariums.com. You can get a starter package that may be easier for you.
Once you have these, follow the directions on the planted tank forum.
One can also obtain MGSO4.7H2O (Magnesium Sulfate) and make PMDD fert, yet this is a science, and mathematically intense.
-Aaron
I could have sworn EI stood for "Estimative Index" but that's beside the point.
Here's another link to read up on...
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html
Generally, people don't follow exactly what you're supposed to dose. The theory behind it is to not limit nutrients but essentially dose in excess and then remove most of what isn't used with a large (50%) water change. Rinse, wash, repeat.
Here's another link to read up on...
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html
Generally, people don't follow exactly what you're supposed to dose. The theory behind it is to not limit nutrients but essentially dose in excess and then remove most of what isn't used with a large (50%) water change. Rinse, wash, repeat.
It Does!
but newbs remember "Each Individual" and it reenforces the need for consistency and plan formulation.As a beginner, one doesnt learn Estimative Index until they have spent too much on this hobby
and know that plantbrain(Barr) created the method, and bla bla bla...
First of all, I do know anyone who refers to EI as anything other than "Estimative Index", and secondly...the whole thing is not a rigid "you must dose this way" type of deal. It's generally best to start out with the basic dosing plan, and then adjust to suit your tank needs.
K2SO4 is NOT part of standard EI dosing, the idea being that plants will get enough Potassium (K) from dosing KNO3 and KH2PO4. The only reason that you would need K2SO4 is you're not dosing full amounts of potassium nitrate, or potassium phosphate.
I'd buy from bobstropicalplants.com or aquariumfertilizer.com personally. GLA's equipment prices annoy me...why pay $26 dollars for a drop checker that I could buy on ebay for less than $5? (Admittedly GLA's drop checkers come with 4dKH solution, but $20 dollars worth?)
Not really. Dry dosing is easier in that it lets you adjust things to suit your tanks needs without having to mix up a new batch of ferts though.
Well, Well Phoenix, arent we standoffish!
Lets see, I guess I'll start with Im surprised you haven't heard newbs referring to EI as Each Individual, then again you only frequent this site, hmm...and I just lost 2500 real posts on another site, so Ive heard alot. IME
Also If you notice, number 4. says "extra" as KNO3 and KH2PO4 is NOT a sufficient supply of potassium... IME..
Then again I use Very high lighting, and pressurized co2, and have have to throw plants away weekly, because im guessing at this game...
I can get cheaper ferts, from GLA, and I would never trade my relationship with O, for any other company! They have the best customer service and overall knowledge of the product they sell. Period! ALSO IMO/E...
If you need to see the mathematically intense reasoning behind the science PMDD testing and adjusting, and not this, IMO PMDD does this or PMDD is that, IMO YOU SHOULD READ THIS FIRST!
And Im sorry, but measuring(wieghing) fert and mixing a solution to measure in ml's is far more accurate to reach target ppm, than your, "throw some in the tank" dry dosing,... and you get a more consistent dispersal throughout the water column using a solution. IME
I frequent barrreport.com - most of my knowledge of our hobby comes from Tom... and the many other people who have made this hobby as popular as it is becoming today!
I have spent hundreds of hours researching MY hobby, and will post my first hand experience freely!
And whats with the picking apart of my post? Are you feeling angry? I have sent you a friend request as, I got the feeling after reading your post, that you need a friend... I'll be your friend, but you should know, I shoot from the hip, and say what I feel! Can you accept that and be friends? (holds hand out to shake)
Accept or reject...
In My Opinion(IMO)
-Aaron Gifford
P.S. I am sorry you got mad! can you forgive you? :argue:
Lets see, I guess I'll start with Im surprised you haven't heard newbs referring to EI as Each Individual, then again you only frequent this site, hmm...and I just lost 2500 real posts on another site, so Ive heard alot. IME
Also If you notice, number 4. says "extra" as KNO3 and KH2PO4 is NOT a sufficient supply of potassium... IME..
Then again I use Very high lighting, and pressurized co2, and have have to throw plants away weekly, because im guessing at this game...
I can get cheaper ferts, from GLA, and I would never trade my relationship with O, for any other company! They have the best customer service and overall knowledge of the product they sell. Period! ALSO IMO/E...
If you need to see the mathematically intense reasoning behind the science PMDD testing and adjusting, and not this, IMO PMDD does this or PMDD is that, IMO YOU SHOULD READ THIS FIRST!
And Im sorry, but measuring(wieghing) fert and mixing a solution to measure in ml's is far more accurate to reach target ppm, than your, "throw some in the tank" dry dosing,... and you get a more consistent dispersal throughout the water column using a solution. IME
I frequent barrreport.com - most of my knowledge of our hobby comes from Tom... and the many other people who have made this hobby as popular as it is becoming today!
I have spent hundreds of hours researching MY hobby, and will post my first hand experience freely!
And whats with the picking apart of my post? Are you feeling angry? I have sent you a friend request as, I got the feeling after reading your post, that you need a friend... I'll be your friend, but you should know, I shoot from the hip, and say what I feel! Can you accept that and be friends? (holds hand out to shake)
Accept or reject...
In My Opinion(IMO)
-Aaron Gifford
P.S. I am sorry you got mad! can you forgive you?
:argue:At the time, folks where all doing PMDD, I just happen to have had high PO4 in the tap.
I was initially turned off by all the "chem speak", thought I needed to know more than I really did, knew folks simply would not bother to test much.
Most of it was human social habits, not science so much. Basically, what makes a planted tank easier, easiest to manage with the least amount of back ground and assumptions.
1. Folks know how to use a teaspoon to cook, bake cookies and what not.
2. They have to know how to do a water change if they own an aquarium, most are fine with this.
3. While we can use math to predict the outcomes, the hobbyist do not need to know it to estimate, they can simply use a a simple easy target, say 50% weekly water changes.
4. This takes the least amount of time to explain.
It also rules out testing issues such as calibration and reference standards. Folks have enough issue testing, let alone doing these extra but needed steps. Who got into this hobby to test? None I've ever met.
EI was more a response to human issues, than a better method itself.
I had suggested using high grade test kits and calibrated references.
Then dose + test+ do water changes.
Later, I included sediment rich source of nutrients as well.
Adds a back up source of nutrients and allows the user more wiggle room.
Some go lean and rely more on the sediment, and dose less to the water column, others keep dosing rich and get a longer life out of the sediments.
Both have the same results, there's no significant difference.
I use large water changes as a chance to clean my tank, amplify growth(tank's always pearl like crazy if you do the water change in the morning for the rest of the day light cycle), clean out the filter, prune without sloshing water, or stick my head under water, makes cleaning, pruning and all the other scaping aspects and maintenance issues much easier. I use a simple PCV U shaped hanger for a drain and refill, with a screened Tee so the fish/shrimps do not get siphoned off or water blast the gravel etc away. Those 3/4" overflow screens they use on bulk heads are very good for this.
Then you get a garden hose adapter for the shower head and the pvc, now you can fill/drain very easily and while it drains, fills, you do the other stuff above.
Easy, takes maybe 45 minutes to do a 70% water change and prune, cleaning, etc, everything, for a 180 Gal tank. Takes me 2 hours a week to do 5 tanks totaling 440 Gallons. I water the landscaping with the waste water.
So I do not need nor use an irrigation system for the yard.
This typically used about 200 Gallons 2-3x a week. I add no chlorinate water to the yard, so the bacteria and other organic critters provide a much better cycling and health to the plants there. Once done draining, I switch the other end to the shower and fill.
Goes pretty quick.
If you have your own home and large tank, you might simply have a permanent hard plumbed drain and refill. This makes it even easier, turn a valve to drain, turn another to fill. Soem folks use float siwtches and solenoids to automatically do the water changes, and if you have a controller/ethernet, this can even be done via your phone.
If you use lower light+ slowly and progressively reduce the dosing from high to lower.........then you can reduce the dosign and the water change frequency by simply watching till you notice a negative response from the plants, then bump the dosing back up to the next highest level.
You cannot see this if the plants are limited and struggling to begin with.
It might be CO2 or some other factor.
So it's best to start with a fat plump plant and then reduce it from there if you want to add "just enough". Lower light drives uptake and growth slower for both CO2/nutrients. So you have more wiggle room and better management. Therefore you can reduce the water change frequency down...if that's your goal etc. If you really want to reduce things down even more..then perhaps go non CO2, and use sediment ferts (All cases for that matter) and maybe Excel etc, then 1x a month for Excel is common for water changes, or not at all for non CO2.
No one method will do all of the goals folks have, but lower light will make most of them much easier.
That is one of the more universal issues.
Dosing nutrients is the easy part.
Some make it complicated, but after a couple of weeks, it's old hat.
Folks test etc also, you can still do that, but do it right and use good equipment and reference solutions. Most stop after few times anyway. So it's not something folks really do much over time, typically only if they have an issue, then it's not adding enough perhaps or nothing to do with nutrients at all.
Regards,
Tom Barr
Well, Well Phoenix, arent we standoffish!
Lets see, I guess I'll start with Im surprised you haven't heard newbs referring to EI as Each Individual, then again you only frequent this site, hmm...and I just lost 2500 real posts on another site, so Ive heard alot. IME
Also If you notice, number 4. says "extra" as KNO3 and KH2PO4 is NOT a sufficient supply of potassium... IME..
Then again I use Very high lighting, and pressurized co2, and have have to throw plants away weekly, because im guessing at this game...
I can get cheaper ferts, from GLA, and I would never trade my relationship with O, for any other company! They have the best customer service and overall knowledge of the product they sell. Period! ALSO IMO/E...
If you need to see the mathematically intense reasoning behind the science PMDD testing and adjusting, and not this, IMO PMDD does this or PMDD is that, IMO YOU SHOULD READ THIS FIRST!
And Im sorry, but measuring(wieghing) fert and mixing a solution to measure in ml's is far more accurate to reach target ppm, than your, "throw some in the tank" dry dosing,... and you get a more consistent dispersal throughout the water column using a solution. IME
I frequent barrreport.com - most of my knowledge of our hobby comes from Tom... and the many other people who have made this hobby as popular as it is becoming today!
I have spent hundreds of hours researching MY hobby, and will post my first hand experience freely!
And whats with the picking apart of my post? Are you feeling angry? I have sent you a friend request as, I got the feeling after reading your post, that you need a friend... I'll be your friend, but you should know, I shoot from the hip, and say what I feel! Can you accept that and be friends? (holds hand out to shake)
Accept or reject...
In My Opinion(IMO)
-Aaron Gifford
P.S. I am sorry you got mad! can you forgive you?
Post count means nothing....I can spam a board all day long and get at least 1000 a day.
Personally in all my years doing planted tanks, Ive never heard EI referred to as anything other than Estimative Index. "Estimative" being the key word there. Its different for everybody.
The real reason you dont really need potassium is that the other dry ferts you are using, use potassium salt as a carrier for the nutrient you are dosing.
If you want to break it down to brass tacks, in labs they go by dry weight and them mix into an aqueous solution. I trust their methods. As far as dispersal, as soon as the dry fert is dissolved (seconds to minutes) its dispersed the same as a liquid. I dont think plants work on need it immediately situations, whether it takes a few seconds to a few minutes, its all the same to them.
As far as where to get your ferts from, thats strictly a personal choice, good customer service or not. An opinion is great, no reason to stuff it down others throats though.