Evolution vs. Creation

[Watcher74]

TONO, I don't have any hard feelings toward about you defending your religion. Back when I was 18 I would be backing you up every step of the way.

But Religion is fighting a losing battle. Hundreds of years ago Christianity rallied against the declaration that the Earth was not the center of the Universe and the Sun did not go around the Earth. And they played dirty to keep it suppressed.

But now, in the face of overwhelming evidence, they have accepted it.

Do you think that the Sun goes around the Earth?

This is just another step. In another hundred years or so, I doubt near as many people will be denouncing DNA relationships between creatures or evolution.

And every decade that passes fewer and fewer people will side against evolution.

Religion creates very closed minds.

They fight ugly against same sex marriages. I say, if that's what they want to do, then let them do it. It doesn't hurt anyone.

But in the closed mind of religion, it must be destroyed. It's ok for the church to send out hordes of believers to kill infidels but it has a problem with that?

I've looked at Creation sites, shoot even back when I still believed in God. But even when I was on their side I saw a lot of tricky wording, out of context statements, and outright falsities.

It made me ashamed to be on the same side as them. Finally, I realized that I wasn't anymore.

Why do christian sites have to make so many false impressions to back up their beliefs if it is true? That troubled me for many years.

I was raised to despise 'ists'. Communists/Atheists. I was brainwashed and told what to believe. And I believed it for most of my life.

But I finally looked for myself, and read up on the things I was interested in.

And as I did so, I realized what I decided to believe in. No one will ever tell me what to believe.

I'll get the facts and decide that for myself.

And I'm sure it will change with the years. And that is a good thing. As I get older and wiser, my beliefs will get stronger and more clearly defined. I'll be more understanding, more tolerant, more compassionate.

I won't hate someone because they are ***. I won't think that my race is superior to another. I won't think that people with different views than mine are my enemy and must be destroyed. I won't think AIDS was from God to kill homosexuals, for their "evilness".

I will become a better person.

And I will stop arguing against people like this. I've already traveled past this point in my life. I can't help you to move on as well.

*sigh* But I still get the old arguing going.

I'm done.

Believe in God if you want. That is your right. And God Bless.

 

[Watcher74]

P.S. Just to post a small insight to my change of views.

In my mid-twenties, I really started reading voraciously on a wide range of topics for my own interest.

History of civilization, evolution, the cosmos. I'd keep running into the same people. Richard Feynman, Einstein, etc.

One of the ones I hold the deepest respect for is Carl Sagan. He was a wonderful person. Very carying, loving father, deeply intelligent. Died far too young, and left humanity impoverished from his loss.

I started developing a deep respect for these lovers of knowledge, and searchers of truth.

They were so much more tolerant and open-minded then the people I was raised around in the Bible belt of east Tx.

I highly respect scientific people. Open minded, curious, searchers for what is true, not what they want to be true. Those are the people I want to emulate. The ones I want to be like.

This is the only life I get. I want to live it well.

I want to be a truly good person. And oddly enough as I used to believe. I can't be that way if I cling to a Dogma.

 

[Slappy*McFish]

Religion has given 'God' a bad name. I do believe in a creator and yet I strongly support evolution and science as fact. Does that mean there's a contradiction in my beliefs?...I don't think so. I'm not religious by any means and I don't view the bible as 'truth'...but I do believe in something greater than myself. You can call it 'God' if you want to.

 

[TONO]

Well I guess I have alot more reading to do, you got me on that one. I wouldn't say I'm Christian, but I do not want to rule that out because we still know so little about our world. Are two partical theories about the universe for example are inconsistant with each other both of them can't be correct. Or the origins of life, how did nothing turn into something? I mean we still have no idea how chilarity of ammino acids works let alone touching on the even more complex problem of making DNA and RNA. Or the fact that a random explosion produced finely tuned galaxies, solar systems, moons, planets. All in mathematically perfect accuracy. Life in itself seems to be a miralce.

 

[Watcher74]

You're not even a Christian and you still put up a fight like that?

You need to consider being a Lawyer!!

Study debating at least!

 

[fishypoo2]

I voted creation. I also believe in Microevolution, but not Macroevolution. In other words one species cannot evolve into another species, but can adapt/evolve within it's own species.

Have you heard of the case in Lake Victoria (before the perch introduction), species were changing (i.e. evolving) so rapidly, that it was extremely difficult to differentiate the hundreds of species, but they were still different enough to be considered separate species.

 

[fishypoo2]

BTW: If we did evolve from chimps (primates), why didnt all of us evolve and why are there still primates? I just have to ask.

We didn't evolve from chimps. Because we share the 99% or whatever of DNA, that means we have a common ancestor. Individuals of THAT species evolved into chimps, humans, etc... The reason it split into two, is probably because some of the species evolved to live in a different habitat from the others.

 

[fishypoo2]

Well first off there is no real fossil evidence linking any species evolving into another organism. please anyone name a transitional series of fossilized organisms that would show one species evolving to another. that is a required part of evolutionary theory that had to have happened right?

You cannot see evolution. Evolution is a change over time to better suit the environment that the organism lives in. How do you explain that there (especially is some of the more primitive animals: coelacanth, lungfish, etc etc...) are species alive today that look similar, but not exactly like fossil animals. Does that not mean they have evolved?

 

[mindtonic]

I will say it again all arguments based on DNA are circular

Maybe so..............but your quote seems like a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

What could be more circular than the justification for creationism: the bible says it so it must be so. Why must it be so? Because the bible is the word of god. How do you know it is the word of god? Because that is what we believe / the bible says so.

Sheesh.

 

[Matak]

Yes Mindtonic, but I have had a personal relationship with God for several years now. It is not just a one time thing. I beleive He exists and that is my experience and no one can shake me from that. There are others on this board that will claim this same relationship. For me (and I believe the others in my position) this makes the proof not circular.

But what does that do for you? Nothing or little, I will admit. You do not have my experience and it is too big a stretch to just take me at my word on such a foundational issue.

So for me it boils down to this: I can't convince you about the existence of God through existing theories because the same evidence that exists for you can also be used convincingly by creation scientists. There is no empirical evidence, save for our experience (which you cannot accept), because it didn't happen to you. We cannot accept your theory of the same evidence because we have this personal experience that tells us beyond the shadow of a doubt that not only does God exist, but He is all He says He is.

But, having said all this, intelligent design seems far more likey than random chance, given the complexity, intricity and beauty of existance. For your further reading pleasure, I leave you with this.