Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution or Creation?

  • Evolution

    Votes: 40 46.5%
  • Creation

    Votes: 23 26.7%
  • Both (originally created, evolved since)

    Votes: 21 24.4%
  • Neither (???)

    Votes: 2 2.3%

  • Total voters
    86
Mako,

I'd like to reply to your response to my PM, but your Private Messages are full.

Could you delete some of them so I can respond?

Thanks.
 
Watcher74 said:
Saying we are 100% human does not mean we are 100% the same.

The most difficult part about even suggesting such a thing is which ethnic group gets to be the focus?

Well, all the fossil records say we originated in Africa, so I guess Africans are the focus.

Just interesting to me that every "hominid" skull found looks strikingly aboriginal, and they find them in places you might expect to find aboriginal skulls. What a coincidence!

30,000 years ago there were very large animals on every single continent. Mammoths, Saber tooth tigers, giant sloths, HUGE reptiles in Australia. And then they all died mysteriously. Happened to coincide with human dispertion across the globe. Does that imply that we killed them? That's a huge debate. But most people admit, that most likely we did do it.

Could be. Or it could be this big ol flood that I've read about. As far as human dispertion, yes, I could well easily see that happening after the flood. After all, somebody already knew how to build the biggest ship of all. Crossing a paltry couple of oceans would have been a walk in the park.

But let me ask you this:

If humans killed all the large animals on all the different continents, why is Africa, our ancestral homeland, the only continent that is known to have very large animals?

Because those are the only animals that coevolved with us.

Those are the only animals that slowly adapted to our increasing abilities to kill them.

If a herd of Antelope in Africa see a lion come over a hill they do not run.

They just look at it and mutter, "I see you, lion. You start running and I'm out of here."

Those same Antelope see a human come over a hill and they run like hell was behind them.

I could understand why those creepy looking two legged things are scary. They scare me!


They just looked at us and said, "That's a funny looking animal. Never seen anything like that. Hey, why is it holding that funny branch thing? What is it doing with that? Really odd animal. Hey wha??? gurgle..."

Hmmm, I wouldn't tell that to the families in Florida who's kids were attacked by bull sharks.



If humans and animals were all created at the same time, and no one had a chance to evolve in response to the dangers of each other, then all the surviving large animals would not only exist in Africa.

But they do. So what does that tell you?

Well, they exist in India as well, namely elephants, quite far from Africa. What what point is central between Africa and India? The middle east, perhaps even the Sinai peninsula.

Well, if there are no other large animals in Africa (or India), then why are there no snakes in Ireland? By evolutions geography, when the great continent "pangea" broke up, surely some serpents would have made their way. They made it to England and Europe. Hawaii- Bermuda-Guam.... but not Ireland. So maybe the Irish evolved much quicker than the snakes in the predator-prey (or snake-garden rake) relationship. I have no Creation answer to that one, but it's about the same as asking why there are no large animals around the globe.

People have been on the seas for thousands of years, yet I regularly have dolphins and the occasional manatee come right up to the boat when I'm out in our coastal waters. They have no reason to--- they don't eat what you try to feed them, and boats don't look like attractive potential mates. No fear there.
 
The more recent areas of human colonization has fewer large animals(over 100 lbs).

Elephants migrated to India the same as humans. But they came from Africa just like we did.

The only large animals that survived the Native Americans in North America were of European descent. Hence, they had been around humans longer and had more time to adapt to us. They just happened to be traveling around like we were. Heck the Horse originally evolved in North America, then they traveled around the world several times. But by the time the Old world encountered the New world(Americas) there were no horses here. We brought them with us as a means of locomotion and warfare.

The animals that were around humans longer during our early days, saved them from a global flood?

How? Because those are the only ones we took on that big ship during the flood?

I thought we took 2 of every one of them?

And once again, to suggest Homo Habilis or any of our cousins in the evolutionary tree are aboriginal humans is ludicrous. Those were not humans by any means of the imagination.

The argument that they were a type of monkey/ape/gorilla, that just so happened to look more like modern humans than our current, fellow apes is far more plausible than they were ethnic humans.
 
Mako said:
Well, if there are no other large animals in Africa (or India), then why are there no snakes in Ireland? By evolutions geography, when the great continent "pangea" broke up, surely some serpents would have made their way. They made it to England and Europe. Hawaii- Bermuda-Guam.... but not Ireland. So maybe the Irish evolved much quicker than the snakes in the predator-prey (or snake-garden rake) relationship. I have no Creation answer to that one, but it's about the same as asking why there are no large animals around the globe.

FWIW...
http://www.txtwriter.com/Onscience/Articles/patsnakes.html

Also, FWIW, I read something recently (no idea of the source, only read it in passing), that large animal disappearance and human arrival doesn't correlate all that well as more refined data is collected.
 
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Watcher74 said:
I thought we took 2 of every one of them?
That's not true! I distinctly remember reading about how the unicorns played and wouldn't heed the call to get on the ark. And that's why there are no unicorns anymore.

BTW, has anybody else here read Guns, Germs, and Steel? Very, very good book that's relevant to this conversation.
 
BTW, has anybody else here read Guns, Germs, and Steel? Very, very good book that's relevant to this conversation.

Actually...crap yeah!

Where is that book? Man, I had it, I read it. But I haven't thought about it in a long time.

Ahh, man. You go around and move all the time...then you lose stuff!
 
I like how they, in the Ireland snake page, seem to know just exactly where they ice cap fell. After all, they were there weren't they? I just don't think we're that good.

We can't even go a year or two back in time to find enough evidence to convict Michael Jackson (c'MON folks read the writing on the wall, he's GUILTY) yet we claim to know just how things happened 100 million years ago, until they find a bone that wasn't supposed to be there, then it's OH, 20 million years or now it's 180 million years. Those are lots of years and margins of error in the millions of years. I just find no credibility in that.
 
Well OJ is guilty. The entire point is "beyond credible doubt" that someone is guilty.

Not that he most definetly did not do it. Just say...do you have the tiniest doubt? And all agree on that doubt? If so, you must aquit!

Any scientist would state that OJ did do it. And he would be right.
 
Well, this is obviously an interesting thread - even though the chances of converting anyone one way or another are virtually nil - hehe. However, I believe that the creator's greatest gift to all of us was our minds - our capacity for self-awareness, reason, compassion, and the ability to question - in general, minds work a hell of a lot better when they remain open. I must admit I prefer theories base on scientific rigor to the teachings of a particular religion, which, by definition, would not really even be a theory. For those of you who support evolution, such as myself, here is a good website - http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/ - for those who prefer the creationist arguement - how about this - God created Evolution. Perhaps a more important debate would be now that we are here, what are we going to do? Will we learn to live together in an ever-changing world, or we will fall back on our dogma, closing doors? I think the creator, however you perceive him/her/it, is waiting for the answer.
 
Fishboy,

That is probably the most intelligent thing anyone has said yet in this thread.
 
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