From a fellow Canadian, I apologize.

[NowherMan6]

Quite wrong, the US military was insanely lacking. We had no navy whatsoever. And would have been obliterated by countries such as Brazil.

I didnt say we were necessarily strong, just that the attitude was there that we were working towards strong military means. Jefferson and others argued for a strong navy from nearly the birth of the nation.

Just because it was wanted didnt make it so, but it's a matter of attitude

 

[FL Knifemaker]

YUP, I'm outahear to!!

Once someone says the Iraq war is about the oil, I can't take it anymore. Pretty soon that Iraqi oil will be flowing and our gas prices will be down to $.50 again. So much for an intelligent discussion. :thud:

 

[Gambusia]

Canada does have a second rate military because it doesn't spend the monies the US, France and Britian does- at least equipment wise.

Now if that's what Canadians want, I'm cool with that.

They did help us in Afghanistan and a lot of Canadians joined the US Army in Vietnam.

The fact of the matter is most Canadians live in Quebec and Ontario and they basically control the political system by default of having lots more people than say the Yukon or Manitoba.

Finally because Canada is between Alaska and the conterminous lower 48 if a missle is fired at North America the US would shoot it down even over Canada. Paul Martin knows this and so he can say whatever he wants.

 

[Matak]

See up here we are at the advantage of not worrying about if the news about the States is skewed one way or the other. They (CTV and CBC) just present the news without the pro or con rhetoric and we just see the facts and the numbers because they have nothing to loose either way.

CBC not rhetoric? CBC just presents the news? *(opinion edited out)* A lot of people consider the state run CBC to be nothing more that a left wing propoganda machine.

 

[Matak]

Canada does have a second rate military because it doesn't spend the monies the US, France and Britian does- at least equipment wise.

Now if that's what Canadians want, I'm cool with that.

Canada hasbeen resting on its past military laurels and on the freindly might of the US for decades now. When we claim that we have the worlds longest undefended border, what should really be implied is our coastal areas, especially the North West passage. I said it in my first post, and I'll say it again, freedom costs.

Finally because Canada is between Alaska and the conterminous lower 48 if a missle is fired at North America the US would shoot it down even over Canada. Paul Martin knows this and so he can say whatever he wants.

Do you really think that the US would wait and ask permission to shoot down an enemy bomber/missle if it crossed over our northern territories? Do you think we would want that?

 

[Gambusia]

Which is why Paul Martin's opinion and decision are totally irrelevant.

The US doesn't care.

Even a John Kerry wouldn't hesitate to shoot down a missle over Canada.

I hope Canadians realize that.

Dennis Kucinichs have no chance of being President in the US.

 

[bortsamson]

I think perhaps, back on the orginal topic anyway that started way back when, lol.
Anywho
I agree it is a very political oriented move. However, try to see it from a CANADIAN point of view.
Our #1 trading parter suddenly decides that all mighty evil Canada is stealing american forestry jobs, so they impose a tarrif, we agree ONLY on the basis that the funds will be transfered back to Canada to compensate for any losses. Now, correct me if I am wrong, there have been SEVERAL supreme court cases that the US has filed against us canadians in an attempt to keep that money. YOUR OWN government has denied these cases and has told to pay up. Somehow, the funds are still being held in an american bank.
So, to sum it up, W assumed that canadians were to blame for forestry job losses and lumber prices etc etc etc, so he put a tax on imports. A few years went by, a whole wack of Canadians lost their jobs, mills shut down, whole towns closed, AND......nothing changed down south. In FACT, lumber prices skyrocketed. So, we canadians want OUR money back. US says no, you cant have it. How does that work?

Now, all that being said, lets move on.
Mad Cow disease.
According to the US, SOLEY Canadian beef to blame.
So, SHUT THEM BORDERS DOWN TO CANADIAN BEEF!
And yet, the disease STILL exists in the US. Cant remember the last one i heard aboot up here.
Now, with that border closure, Hundreds of cows were slaughtered in an attempt to regain credibility. With the loss of the cattle, comes a loss of MORE jobs. When you consider one of alberta's biggest idustries is cattle, imagine the impact! In comes governement relief, but that money has to come at a sacrafice to other funding, ala healthcare, but DONT get me started there.

Now, to contrast how everything comes together, somethin like dis.
1.Softwood lumber tarrif
2.Softwood lumber disputes, US wont give money back
3."tainted" beef closes trading
4. the war breaks
5. canadians dont join in, asserting themselves politically
6. Missle defence issue rears its ugly head
7. Canada says NO again, further entreanching our position
8. We are sitting here debating the issue

Now, I can get into immigration issues and a billion other Canada vs. US issues, but I dont wanna start another 1812 here.
think what ya want, I'm done
:thud:

 

[Gambusia]

And both Democrats and Republicans support that stuff to gain votes- at the expense of screwing over Canadians.

Neither party is a friend of Canada.

 

[Harlock]

Neither party is a friend of Canada.

Gambusia, a wiser man than me once said, "Politics is self-interest."
Once you learn that lesson, you have made a grand step forward in understanding politics.

PS: Thanks Dr. Jones!

 

[Gambusia]

I agree.

Getting elected and staying in power.

Whether one is in Canada, Zimbabwe or the US.

My point is Kerry would have been no better for Canada than Bush is.