GFO vs AO

What brand of brine shrimp? Where is it collected, cultured, etc.? That can and may contribute significantly to that number. Either way, it is not good, which makes me glad I don't feed brine shrimp to start with. What concerns me more than what has more aluminum in it is the toxicity ranges for various organisms. I'd prefer not to risk it. Instant Ocean already has enough in it without adding even more.

Ace, again, look at the toxicity results. I'm seeing high enough aluminum concentrations to cause a potential problem. One thing that is unconfirmed that I would like to point out is that you cannot observe all of the results. What is happening internally as aluminum concentrations build in tissues? Reproductive consequences? Beyond that, we are finding that aluminum is bad for a broad variety of organisms. One reason they may phase cans out.
 
Some salt mixes actually contain quit a bit of aluminum. Oceanic comes to mind.
 
To add, you should be looking at this more along the lines of "how can I lessen this as much as possible" since it is confirmed that it raises aluminum concentrations, rather than "can I get away with it." I don't think you'd be asking that latter question about too many other things involving your tank, would you?
 
I agree, the results listed on that site do show toxicity levels high enough to cause issues to living things in the tank.. but again, that is because their are severely overdosing the amount of Phosguard to see how much is needed to reach that toxicity level. Normal people will run 1/200th the amount they did, big difference.

I do agree with you on the other point though, there is not enough information on the effects of aluminum that does get absorbed into the living things in your tank. Obviously any amount is not a good thing, and this was where I was hoping someone knew of some research that had been done to show the absorption levels over time with using AO in things like fish and corals. I guess I was wishing for too much.. like in so many areas in this hobby.. we are still in its infancy as far as real knowledge on so many things.
 
Exactly. Those concentrations were lethal amounts. What are the sublethal effects? There may very well be effects we don't even notice just from concentrations in our salt mixes. If that's the case, I'm going out of my way to keep from making that rise even more.

FWIW, I don't even use GFO anymore. I honestly don't like the idea of adding any metals, short of calcium and magnesium to the tank. Granted, there are trailing metal species with even those, but I don't want any on top of that.
 
Last edited:
But... but.. but... the aluminum that is in your salt, do we know the size of it? What state is it in? Same goes with AO on the state, but we know the size, 45 microns, so couldn't we put in a 20 micron filter sock for a day once a week or more to remove the aluminum that is released by AO? Again, this doesn't say anything for the absorption rates if aluminum by the living things in your tank. We don't even know if AO released a state of aluminum that is harmful at all to the living things in your tank, we just know it releases some form of aluminum. The toxicity tests they did was by dosing aluminum into the tank to find the toxicity levels, nothing says AO is the same stuff they dosed.

I just want answers and get frustrated when there are none and I have no way to get the answers myself because I lack the equipment and knowledge to do so. I am sure you have felt this frustration yourself in areas of this hobby Amph. I know you would like to see more research done in the disease/treatment areas of the hobby.
 
Of course I get frustrated. It frustrates the daylights out of me when the hobby stalls from lack of information. I see it everyday, even just in the basic needs of animals, not to mention the added complications of the practical approaches to keeping them. I'd do the research myself, but finding the time, resources, etc. is difficult.
 
DoctaQ said:
i think using ao adds an insignifigant amount of al to the water, less than even occasional brine feeding seemingly
Click to expand...

I don't think we know enough to make that broad of an assumption. I'd prefer to err on the side of safety with my animals, but that's just me. There was a follow up to that article that makes me more concerned: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1602301&highlight=aluminum

Take note that Randy used it in the exact same recommended ratio of media/water volume and got very scary results.

Edit: I'm not trying to tell people they can't use aluminum oxide in their tanks. Many still do it without problems, whereas some do have problems when they use it. It's just that I, personally, won't use it, given all of the aforementioned details.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Amph, at least something current on the topic and by the author himself. Still nothing definitive there other than high al levels will make leathers close up quickly. It appears the whole point of his testing was simply to show Seachem they were wrong and it does put aluminum into the water, then went on to show what levels it would start to cause problems. But he also stated as soon as it was removed the leather started to recover as the aluminum was slowly taken out of the tank via filtering.

I don't think anyone can disagree that aluminum in the water is a bad thing, but like with most parameters in the water, each person will have levels they deemed acceptable for their tanks, whether it be nitrates, phosphates, temp, or something as far off as aluminum.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom