Again thanks for the help, My tank No3 seems to linger around 80ppm that wasn't a typo, My tap is at 40ppm and it just seems to go up once it hits the tank? I was running an air stone at night figuring precipitating the Co2 out at night would help the plants, by allowing more O2 uptake. The flip side of that is what you had mentioned that it takes too long to reach appropriate Co2 levels in the morning. I think it is also allowing to much residual O2 with the powerful lighting for the algae to thrive-in in the morning. I stopped that about 2 days ago. What I was saying was that I was trying to get to a 10:1 ratio but have not been able to get there yet. I thought it would be better to bring the No3 into ratio with the Po4, (but find it hard when the tap is at 40 ppm it is probably easier to bring the Po4 up instead) Is 1ppm Po4 the recommended amount? I am very afraid of raising my Po4, although I know it is probably the right thing to do! . I have sodium biphosphate do you think that would work to raise the Po4? I will try anything twice.
Hair algae (I need help!)
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Try to maintain a PO4 level of 1-1.5ppm. By ensuring that your plants have all the necessary nutrients to grow they should start sucking up the NO3 pretty quickly. It's not in a 10:1 ratio, but I think that as long as there is ample available PO4 there shouldn't be a problem with getting NO3 levels down.
If your plants are pearling nicely, then there shouldn't be any shortage of O2, pearling indicates that your plants are supersaturating the water with O2, so there's plenty available. And, since you've got the whole pH-solenoid control thing going on, it's not like you're going to overshoot and have way too much CO2. Definitely the CO2 is struggling to catch up all day, I suspect that this is why it plunges to 6.4 (below the 6.6 setting), it's trying very hard, then the lights go out, CO2 demand stops and the input rate is still high. Algae is definitely getting the jump on plants for the first few hours of the day.
Don't worry too much about the iron. Plant prefer to absorb iron in the Fe 2+ form (Fe(II) ), but in an oxygen containing environment Fe(II) spontaneously oxidizes to Fe(III), on top of that, Fe(III) is insoluble in anything but very acidic conditions, so it complexes with O2 to form Fe2O3. Reactions like this make Fe analysis tricky to say the least. I remember running a gravimetric Fe analysis in first year analytical lab, even with all the right gear I think it took us 4 hours or possibly 2 4 hour labs to do the analysis on 3 replicates and it was not friendly chemistry, so very nasty stuff is used. Not just chemically either, I definitely recall recoiling at the blast from the 800 oC oven used to bake off organics. In short, pay little heed to the results of Fe test kits, instead, observe your plants for Fe deficiencies and dose your traces on the heavy side.
If your plants are pearling nicely, then there shouldn't be any shortage of O2, pearling indicates that your plants are supersaturating the water with O2, so there's plenty available. And, since you've got the whole pH-solenoid control thing going on, it's not like you're going to overshoot and have way too much CO2. Definitely the CO2 is struggling to catch up all day, I suspect that this is why it plunges to 6.4 (below the 6.6 setting), it's trying very hard, then the lights go out, CO2 demand stops and the input rate is still high. Algae is definitely getting the jump on plants for the first few hours of the day.
Don't worry too much about the iron. Plant prefer to absorb iron in the Fe 2+ form (Fe(II) ), but in an oxygen containing environment Fe(II) spontaneously oxidizes to Fe(III), on top of that, Fe(III) is insoluble in anything but very acidic conditions, so it complexes with O2 to form Fe2O3. Reactions like this make Fe analysis tricky to say the least. I remember running a gravimetric Fe analysis in first year analytical lab, even with all the right gear I think it took us 4 hours or possibly 2 4 hour labs to do the analysis on 3 replicates and it was not friendly chemistry, so very nasty stuff is used. Not just chemically either, I definitely recall recoiling at the blast from the 800 oC oven used to bake off organics. In short, pay little heed to the results of Fe test kits, instead, observe your plants for Fe deficiencies and dose your traces on the heavy side.
Your advice is exactly what I was looking for, again thank you! Is there anything I can do to lower the nitrates? (For the moment water changes aren't going to help because of the high No3 at the tap) I ordered some nitrate absorbing material, and a DI unit figuring if I can control the water that goes in at water changes then all I have to worry about is controlling what's in the tank in the form of excess food etc.. Do you think it is necessary to add electrolytes and ph adjuster to the filtered water or is OK to just put into the tank? Someone mentioned using K2So4 for lowering nitrates does that work?
K2SO4 won't lower NO3, but since you don't need to supply any additional NO3 as KNO3, you will need to supply K to your plants. You can lower the amount of NO3 supplied by mixing with RO water, DI will work as well. The GH and KH from your tap are enough that you may be able to get away without returning too many electrolytes to the water, but you may want to add some crushed coral or aragonite to your filter to help buffer the new, very soft water going to the tank. At a glance, I'd say to mix them in a 1 part tap to 2 parts DI water to start with, see what kind of results that gives you. You'll likely end up with very soft water, which may mean resupplying some nutrients for the plants, but as long as the change is gradual, your fish should be fine. If you're keeping tetras, angels and the like, they should appreciate the change.
However, my first approach would be to try just increasing CO2 to 25-30ppm, dose PO4 and K and let the plants bring down the NO3. Most algae can't use NO3 anyway, so that on its own shouldn't be a problem. Try this more simple approach for a few weeks and if there's still a problem, then step up the level of complexity.
However, my first approach would be to try just increasing CO2 to 25-30ppm, dose PO4 and K and let the plants bring down the NO3. Most algae can't use NO3 anyway, so that on its own shouldn't be a problem. Try this more simple approach for a few weeks and if there's still a problem, then step up the level of complexity.
I have already added crushed coral to the tank, if you noticed my tap PH is 6.4. I used the coral to buffer it up so when I ran the CO2 it would not drop below 6.0 which is what initially happened. Do you think if I feather in a controlled amount of tap water into the DI water when changed that would be helpful or harmful?
I will definitely do as you suggested. I haven't got the DI equipment yet. It is scary because it needs time to balance out and I am a little nervous because if the parameters in the tank are not correct then I will be waiting for a disaster of sorts. Sometimes doing too much too quickly is probably worse.
I am posting a picture of the tank let me know what you think
The resolution is pretty poor how do you attach a larger file?
Thanks Again
I will definitely do as you suggested. I haven't got the DI equipment yet. It is scary because it needs time to balance out and I am a little nervous because if the parameters in the tank are not correct then I will be waiting for a disaster of sorts. Sometimes doing too much too quickly is probably worse.
I am posting a picture of the tank let me know what you think
The resolution is pretty poor how do you attach a larger file?
Thanks Again
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I didn't actually look at your tap pH, but it seems very low for a KH of 90ppm. Did you test straight from the tap, or did you let it sit out overnight in a shallow dish? I suspect that you'd see a pH increase if you did.
Definitely mix in some tap with the DI, that's what I was getting at, you've got moderately mineral rich tap water, so instead of adding RO-right or whatnot, just add some tap.
Agreed on the gradual approach as well, start with maybe 10% DI in your water change and work up from there. But again, try the nutrient scheme first.
Your tank looks nice. You can post a larger image by hosting it on a site like photobucket.com or other image hosting sites. Then you can just copy-paste the image tag, it should look something like this: {IMG}......{/IMG}, but with the { and } replaced by [ and ] .
Definitely mix in some tap with the DI, that's what I was getting at, you've got moderately mineral rich tap water, so instead of adding RO-right or whatnot, just add some tap.
Agreed on the gradual approach as well, start with maybe 10% DI in your water change and work up from there. But again, try the nutrient scheme first.
Your tank looks nice. You can post a larger image by hosting it on a site like photobucket.com or other image hosting sites. Then you can just copy-paste the image tag, it should look something like this: {IMG}......{/IMG}, but with the { and } replaced by [ and ] .
You are 100% correct the tap parameters were tested initially straight out of the tap, I did do a control sample tested at 24 hrs. and you are also correct in that the PH did go up to about 7.0 and thhe KH went from 90 to 120 ppm, other than that everything stayed the same. I am going 100% by your advice. One thing I thought I would mention as a warning to others is not to use aquarium pharm. plantabs (contains phosphates) One of the first things I did a while back was to put in those plantabs, well now the phosphates are leaching into the water column! I removed the phosphate sponge I had in my filter because I wanted to allow the phosphates to rise to the levels you recommended. To my suprise when I tested the next morning, when the test read over 5ppm! I almost passed out. THe only thing I have added at all that has any phosphates were those plantabs. And I cannot remove them as they are surely broken down from a solid by now. So the phosphate sponges went back in. Any suggestions on this little problem? catch 22 if remove the material phosphates skyrocket, if I leave them in phosphates are too low. (opened the pouch and removed about a 1/4 of the material from the packet thinking maybe I can scale back the effects. I am guessing the only thing that can be done is to wait until the tabs dissipate and never ever do that again).
Don't stress it. Keep your CO2 up and PO4 should not pose a problem. I do not believe that PO4 is responsible for algae in a high tech tank such as yours. The Sears-Conlin paper that has everyone freaking out about PO4 was from experiments on low light-low growth tanks where nutrient consumption is low.
In a high light tank, your plants are craving nutrients and right now you've suddenly provided a lot more. The PO4 level may be a problem for a little while, and there's certainly a chance that you'll get some algae from levels that high, but I don't think it's worth any drastic measures. You can try putting a small amount of the phos-sorb stuff back in, but I'd probably just leave it and keep an eye on the algae and plants.
Yeah, steer clear of the root tabs in the future, I've used Jobes plant spike without much incidence, but they are kind of messy when you uproot a plant that's wrapped roots around and through the tab. As check what they use as a nitrogen source, if it's urea, that breaks down to NH3.
Dose K and traces to prevent deficiencies, keep feedings very, very light, even skip every other day of provide a day of fasting now and then, I usually have at least one fast per week. Something that's been mentioned in another thread by Daveedka is Ca and Mg issues. It's worthwhile checking up on these and keeping an eye out for shortages. Your local water company should be able to provide you with a detailed analysis of your tap water. You can usually find it online, if not, contact them and ask nicely for them to e-mail or mail it to you, it's a very useful reference. Keep in mind though that this is an annual average and there may be spikes of various things in different seasons, especiall spring after snow melt and fall as leaves decay.
In a high light tank, your plants are craving nutrients and right now you've suddenly provided a lot more. The PO4 level may be a problem for a little while, and there's certainly a chance that you'll get some algae from levels that high, but I don't think it's worth any drastic measures. You can try putting a small amount of the phos-sorb stuff back in, but I'd probably just leave it and keep an eye on the algae and plants.
Yeah, steer clear of the root tabs in the future, I've used Jobes plant spike without much incidence, but they are kind of messy when you uproot a plant that's wrapped roots around and through the tab. As check what they use as a nitrogen source, if it's urea, that breaks down to NH3.
Dose K and traces to prevent deficiencies, keep feedings very, very light, even skip every other day of provide a day of fasting now and then, I usually have at least one fast per week. Something that's been mentioned in another thread by Daveedka is Ca and Mg issues. It's worthwhile checking up on these and keeping an eye out for shortages. Your local water company should be able to provide you with a detailed analysis of your tap water. You can usually find it online, if not, contact them and ask nicely for them to e-mail or mail it to you, it's a very useful reference. Keep in mind though that this is an annual average and there may be spikes of various things in different seasons, especiall spring after snow melt and fall as leaves decay.
I did re-install some of the phos sorb material, I am already skipping a feeding every sixth day, as well as working on the culprit (my girlfriend) of the past overfeeding she thinks they are always hungry and therefore should be fed to surplus. That battle is much worse than any algae problem! At any rate I am dosing K now as well I think 1.35 ML daily. Is k2So4 better than straight K? I will do two 30% water changes with 10% Di water and see how that helps. The algae does not seem to be advancing as of late as all of the new plant growth is without algae. And I have slowly been removing the existing algae little by little. Plant growth seems excellent (hygro are growing close to 4" a week, Is that good?) to me but I am still pretty new to this so it is relative to my past experience. The plants have stopped pearling, I am guessing based on what you said previously that because we stopped night time aration that there is not the levels of O2 that were present before. Does an O2 saturation also contribute to massive algae growth? Lastly I would like to thank you for your advice this forum is lucky to have someone with your experience and knowledge. I will post some follow-ups. Thanks Again!
Whether you're dosing K2SO4 or KCl is really immaterial, of course note that each have very different masses. K2SO4 is about 45% K by mass and KCl is about 52% K by mass. So for every ppm you want to increase K by add: about 0.75g K2SO4 or about 0.66g of KCl, it's not a big difference, but something to keep in mind, you'll need to use a little more K2SO4 than KCl for the same results.
Little factoid, you cannot add straight K to your aquarium, elemental K explodes in water, it's really very fun to watch.
Be tenacious with the algae, it wants very badly to thrive and take over, you gotta want to get rid of it more.
Your plants should still be pearling, if your CO2, lighting and nutrients are all in balance, and the plants are growing fast, then they should be converting tons of CO2 into O2. No, O2 levels have nothing to do with algae.
Little factoid, you cannot add straight K to your aquarium, elemental K explodes in water, it's really very fun to watch.
Be tenacious with the algae, it wants very badly to thrive and take over, you gotta want to get rid of it more.
Your plants should still be pearling, if your CO2, lighting and nutrients are all in balance, and the plants are growing fast, then they should be converting tons of CO2 into O2. No, O2 levels have nothing to do with algae.
