*HELP* DISCUS sitting on tank bottom

Yep I decided to loose the RO threw all this - just no point in it and its a pain to deal with and strees over.

I here ya about the meds.

I have a 10G or two - How do you do this Salt bath you refer to???
Thanks, Arkangel77
 
Hi. Just read thru all the new posts since I've been on.

I agree with what other posters have said.

I would up your WCs, actually to at least 50% twice a week. We like to keep nitrates below 20 ppm and lower yet is better.

Its true that a lot of Discus keepers keep adults separate from juvies due to different requirements. Juvies need more food for growout and are more susceptible to ailments than adults. With more feeding for growout, more and larger WCs are necessary.

When you start to lower your tank temp, do it slowly, a little each day. Also, if your tap is good, there's no reason to use RO. I've used my tap since I first started with Discus. I don't even age it and I deal with offgassing of CO2 by keeping my WCs to 50-60%, 2 to 3 times a week. With only a 50% WC, my PH stays perfectly stable in the tank. You can just do your WCs with tap and gradually you'll have all tap in your tank. When refilling your tank using your tap though, try to keep bubbles to a bare minimum. Too many bubbles irritate their skin and gills.

At this point, the fish with the stringy white poo should just be observed. I don't feel that medication needs to be administered at this point, either. Things may improve on their own with more frequent WCs. If it does not start to clear up in about a week or so, I'd do a Metro treatment. I've recently read in one of Untergasser's books (I think it was his) that stringy white poo, even if it is only stomach lining, is still indicative of something causing an inflamation, so I would purchase some Metro to have on hand, and there are several things that are also good to have on hand with Discus, if you don't have them already. Metro can be pricey, but www.jehmco.com has pure Metro and sells it for a very reasonable price. There are some medicated flakes that are excellent to have as well, from www.angelsplus.com. Dewormer flake (fenbendazole), Parasite flake (metro) and antibiotic flake (kanamycin). Also Epsom Salt, which acts as a laxative and cleans them out, regular or kosher salt for salt dips (I use Diamond Crystal Kosher with salt as the only ingredient), Quick Cure and a broad spectrum parasite med, perhaps Jungle's Parasite Clear. Honestly, I end up throwing most of the stuff out unused because it expires, but I keep this stuff on hand, just in case.

If you decide to do a salt bath, here's a link to instructions on BIDKA. They're on Simply, too. The instructions are from Paul, owner of BIDKA and also an admin on SD. He is super knowledgeable about disease/illness and treating Discus. (You might have to join to view, not sure, or you can look it up on SD. Its a sticky on both forums under Disease/Medication.

http://forum.bidka.org/showthread.php?t=161

Don't be discouraged, when you keep Discus, you're not really keeping them, you are keeping their water. They need extremely clean water, the cleaner, the better. If you can provide that and some good chow, you're all set.
 
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Draal5 said:
Arkangel

I would not get any meds.

meds should only be used as a last resort for the most part salt baths and lots of fresh clean water is all thats needed.

FYI
I personally don't use any at all for any reason except for ich meds because they will not do any harm. conversely the other readily available meds will do harm if we guess wrong as to whats wrong with your fish.
Click to expand...

I know of several discus keepers that have kept discus for 25-30 years and they would tend to disagree with you here. Many of them will set up three separate "dip baths", with a different chemical in each bath and will put their fish into each bath when QTing them for example. They have shown me that meds are truly helpful in saving a fish.

You say that you use meds for ick, and the most common ingredients in ick meds are formalin and malachite green, which are used to treat a great deal of external parasites such as ick, gill flukes, etc. For what it's worth, these meds are far more harsh than an antibiotic such as metronidazole, which is very hard to overdose. These meds are more dangerous than metro too since you can overdose and harm their gills or kill them if you aren't careful. Overdoseing on formalin can remove too much oxygen from the water and the fish can suffocate. I too use formalin and malachite green in addition to metro. There is nothing wrong with them in my mind as long as you know how and when to use them.
 
I actualy have all 3 medicated Flakes from Angels plus but I havent used them on the Discus - The flake I feed them is a Mix of growth flake and Galic flake with some Mixed flake food in there as well all from angels plus. I bought it and mixed it myslef.

I am a Member of SimplyDiscous and I will go check out that salt bath link.

Thanks for the metro link - and I am for sure going to increase my water change % and frequency as mentioned erlier.

I always make temp changes as slowly as possible. No reason to rush it at all. Just more stress if you go fast.

Thanks a Bunch - I will let you guys and Gals know how they are once I get home.

Arkangel77
 
bs6749 said:
I know of several discus keepers that have kept discus for 25-30 years and they would tend to disagree with you here. Many of them will set up three separate "dip baths", with a different chemical in each bath and will put their fish into each bath when QTing them for example. They have shown me that meds are truly helpful in saving a fish.

You say that you use meds for ick, and the most common ingredients in ick meds are formalin and malachite green, which are used to treat a great deal of external parasites such as ick, gill flukes, etc. For what it's worth, these meds are far more harsh than an antibiotic such as metronidazole, which is very hard to overdose. These meds are more dangerous than metro too since you can overdose and harm their gills or kill them if you aren't careful. Overdoseing on formalin can remove too much oxygen from the water and the fish can suffocate. I too use formalin and malachite green in addition to metro. There is nothing wrong with them in my mind as long as you know how and when to use them.
Click to expand...
bs6749
the most common and recommended treatment for ich on AC is Salt(NaCl)

not formalin or malachite green or other meds .

however, i do tend to treat all my cichlids(mostly angels and Discus) for parasites.
common meds here include fenbendazole, LevamisoleHcl. praziquantel, metronidazole etc.
these are common meds used by a friend of mine who also happens to breed Discus.(30+years) Fenbendazole(aka flubendazole) is his preferred med.

keep in mind I do tend to bring in Wild Angels . but also prefer to treat most all of my new fish the same.
there are exceptions of course.
ie:when the source is a trusted source and the fish have already been subjected to treatment.
 
Star_Rider said:
bs6749
the most common and recommended treatment for ich on AC is Salt(NaCl)

not formalin or malachite green or other meds .

however, i do tend to treat all my cichlids(mostly angels and Discus) for parasites.
common meds here include fenbendazole, LevamisoleHcl. praziquantel, metronidazole etc.
these are common meds used by a friend of mine who also happens to breed Discus.(30+years) Fenbendazole(aka flubendazole) is his preferred med.

keep in mind I do tend to bring in Wild Angels . but also prefer to treat most all of my new fish the same.
there are exceptions of course.
ie:when the source is a trusted source and the fish have already been subjected to treatment.
Click to expand...

On other forums it is commonplace for people to attempt using the "heat method" to treat ick in tropical fish. This usually takes 14 days or more to complete and I am a believer in Quick Cure, which commonly contains formalin and malachite green. I've seen ick disappear in under 3 days using Quick Cure numerous times. I've never had to deal with ick in my discus tanks however, since I keep the temps elevated.

I don't like the idea of putting salt into the tank because once it is in there the only way to get it out is with many PWC's or one complete water change. I would prefer doing a salt dip with a higher concentration of salt over the course of a half an hour to an hour.
 
UMM - OK

Let me post Today's tests and Observations.
PH is still a 75 after 24Hrs in the tank.

They Look Better to day But My BIG Sake still don't look Good - HE does seem a little better but still hiding and dark when ya first come to the tank. The Snake Came out when I fed and looked at the food - he did not eat but that's as BIG improvement. ALSO when he came out he lightened up his colors.

SO - Should I hold the current plan and just change water in a few days again? DO we think I need to dimp him? He is showing improvement. His Fins are still clamped and he is breathing a little faster than the others. My Big Turk still is not looking perfect but he is so improved it dosent seem like its worth talking about.

So any thoughts????? Tank temp is 86 by the way.

Arkangel77
 
I'd continue doing exactly what you are doing. A little improvement each day is definitely progress!!:)
 
WHOOT!!!!!!!!!:thm:
Let me say that again WHOOOOOOOTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!:woot:

He (big snake) was not eating any flake BUT when I offered frozen blood worms tonight they tore it up!!!!!!!:) The BIG snake not only ate buy I think he swallowed 1/2 the block in a single gulp! He was HUNGRY. Some of the others (big guys) still did not eat but I have renewed hope. I will stay the course and do my next water change Friday as planed. I guess I should try to get that Nitrate down even more.....

Again - Thank you all and I will keep you posted.

Arkangel77 :grinyes: :thumbsup: :D
 
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