Help me take a decision about bloat

efors

efors

AC Members
Jun 17, 2008
2,710
0
36
San Juan, Puerto Rico
Hi, folks!
My juvie mbunas have been for 10 weeks in my 55g tank now and during this time, I have seen 2 previous bloat cases. I saved the first fish with just Epsom salt, the second one died too quickly (he got very swollen and was only one day in Epsom salt treatment before dying) and right now I have a third case of possible bloat. He is just slightly swollen, but with fast breathing and hiding a little bit. Now, I want you friends to help me take a decision. I think I'm going to treat the whole 55g tank with Metronidazole very soon, but would like to see your opinions first. What are your thoughts about this? :help:
Thanks in advance for your help!
 
What foods do you usually give them? Water parameters?

Dropsy of Aquarium Fish
Synonyms:
Bloat, Malawi Bloat

Symptoms:
Protrusion of scales, distended abdomen, pop-eye

Description:
The problem with treating this disease is that there are a number of "potential" causes: parasites, cancerous tumors, excessive protein intake, virus, internal bacterial infections, infrequent water changes or sudden temperature drop of more than 3 degrees leading to damaged body organs.

If the cause is bacterial, the swelling typically comes on pretty rapidly. If swelling is gradual then one or more of the other potential causes are more likely. Unfortunately, treatment is most often useless at this point due to the advanced state of the disease process. When the illness, whatever the cause, has progressed far enough to cause internal swelling, the concomitant internal damage is usually too extensive to be repairable.

Treatment:
Romet B
The latest research has shown that if the disease cause is bacterial and if the disease process is caught early enough, treatment with Romet B, a broad spectrum antibacterial, *may* be effective when used concurrent with an increase in water temperature to 84-86ºF for 2 weeks minimum.

BE CERTAIN to maintain HIGH OXYGEN LEVELS during such treatment since at these temperatures, water holds significantly less oxygen at these higher water temperatures. One of the suspected bacterial precursors to the disease process -- Aeromonas, is killed at these temperatures.

Erythromycin
Feeding foods soaked in ERYTHROMYCIN will kill the second suspected bacteria, Mycobacterium. In rare cases popeye has been found to be caused by Edwardsiella etarda. This is found *only* in fish that have been bred in outdoor ponds -- the functional bacteria in this case is carried by frogs. While fair to good results in treatment have been found by feeding Romet B., even better results have been found using injectable chloramphenicol or amakacin. This is best done by your veterinarian.

If parasites are a known cause, treat for them first for 3 days increasing the temperature to 86ºF as fast as possible.

Epsom Salt
Concurrently add 1/8 teaspoon of EPSOM SALT -- per 5 gallons of water. Epsom salt may help reduce the internal pressure caused by the swelling. Extremely good aeration is necessary here due to the use of such high temperatures.

NEVER USE SALT (sodium chloride, a.k.a. aquarium salt) for treatment of dropsy. This will KILL your fish in a very short time. The affected fish are already having a difficult time getting rid of salts due to kidney dysfunction. This causes the blown up appearance and concurrent scale standing. The osmotic imbalance caused by addition of sodium to your tank water will make this condition far worse.

EPSOM SALT on the other hand, does not pass through the walls of the gut or gills and will extract water OUT of the surrounding tissue into the gut where it *may* be excreted.

Metronidazole
1. Remove carbon/resins from filter.
2. Perform a 30-50% water change (reduces free-floating bacteria population)
3. Add salt (teaspoon to a tablespoon per gallon) to aid the fish's osmotic regulation processes.
4. Treat with 250mg/20gallons of Metronidazole (Flagyl)
5. Leave for 3 days and do not feed.
6. After 3 days, perform another large water change.
7. Replace the salt.
8. Add full dosage of Metronidazole.
9. Wait another 3 days. During this phase, the bloat should be decreasing in appearance. In large fish, the water may take on an ammonia odor from the high volume of urea the fish should now be producing due to reducing the bloat and recovering renal activity.
10. 3rd day, another water change. Also, replace the salt and redose the metronidazole (full dose). If the fish looks to be well on the road to recovery you can offer a small feeding each day.
11. Another water change on the 3rd day. No meds but, I'd recommend the salt. You should be clear now.

This is the treatment I use on my africans, puffers, and my lungfishes/polypteridae. Knock on wood that it's worked every single time.

An old school method of treating bloat is with the use of epsom salt at the rate of 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons of tank volume. This method has been successful but, takes longer to treat than by using Metronidazole.

Note in the pics the abdominal distention caused by the bacteria and in a severe case, such as this, the scales are pushed away from the body.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168667
 
Are you feeding them a mostly veggie-based diet? Most mbuna are herbivores and need a mostly veggie diet that is low in protein, so if you are feeding them a lot of meat-based foods this could be the cause of your problems with bloat.
 
you guys were reading my mind or vise versa aye, hehehe, yep too much protein wih meaty foods can lead to bloat...
 
Hi, again!
First: Water parameters are OK; zero ammonia and nitrites, pH=8.0
Second: I feed them once a day a 2-3 minutes meal. On Mon., Wed. and Fri. they eat ON flakes (cichlid veggie formula). On Tues. and Thurs. they eat HBH 8 veggie flakes and on Sat. they eat NLS Thera A 1mm pellets. On Sunday, no food; fast day.
What do you think now? Should I treat the whole main tank with Metronidazole?
 
They should not be getting bloat on the food you are feeding. It sounds like they could be consuming too much food in that 2-3 minutes. I would try feeding twice a day only half the amount at each meal. I leave the meds out fast them for a few days. Epsom salt is the method I would use personally.
 
I see the problem now. Seems constipation. Fast your fish for at least a week. This seems to work on fish who gorge themselves on foods more than what is enough.
 
mostlycichlids said:
They should not be getting bloat on the food you are feeding. It sounds like they could be consuming too much food in that 2-3 minutes. I would try feeding twice a day only half the amount at each meal. I leave the meds out fast them for a few days. Epsom salt is the method I would use personally.
Click to expand...

Would you treat him alone in a hospital tank or would you treat the whole tank with the Epsom salt?
 
Lupin said:
I see the problem now. Seems constipation. Fast your fish for at least a week. This seems to work on fish who gorge themselves on foods more than what is enough.
Click to expand...

Do you think a fasting week will cure it without the need of meds?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom