i cant take the wait any longer

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shawnhu

AC Members
Oct 31, 2008
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New York City
im thinking my cycle was never established in the fist place, dont ask me why. my reasons for believing?

never saw any nitrites and my nitrates ended up being in my tap. also i thought my ammonia was staying at 0 but maybe my hagen kit is whacked out. i dont know man... im doing the dam water change dont worry.
It's possible to skip the Nitrite portion of the cycle, because you already have bacteria from other sources. It's hard to tell, since you have added bacteria seeds from 2 other sources. It's possible that your extra bio-load is catching up and causing a mini-cycle to occur, which is fine, it's expected. Test every other day for Ammonia and Nitrites, if any of them are high/detectable, do a water change, or lock the ammonia using Ammo-Lock. Both will keep your fish safe.
 

katuuuz

negative bacteria magnet
Jul 22, 2008
348
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CT, USA
ok, hopefully it is a mini cycle to catch up. i will also have to check a born on/expiration date for my hagen kit (i do like it better). maybe it is just out of date.
 

Corax

Temporarily risen from the dead..
Nov 14, 2001
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kat, this is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier.. When you cycle with a limited bioload, you develop a biocapacity for that level of pollution. Once you exceed it, your bacteria has to play catch up.. When you use straight ammonia, and REALLY crank the levels up, you have a more.......... robust (?) cycle, that can handle more fish without seeing a mini cycle. It's not the end of the world though..
 

katuuuz

negative bacteria magnet
Jul 22, 2008
348
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CT, USA
kat, this is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier.. When you cycle with a limited bioload, you develop a biocapacity for that level of pollution. Once you exceed it, your bacteria has to play catch up.. When you use straight ammonia, and REALLY crank the levels up, you have a more.......... robust (?) cycle, that can handle more fish without seeing a mini cycle. It's not the end of the world though..
is it basically like starting over? for example, each new load i bring in am i going to have to wait for the bacteria to grow to catch up? or will it at least grow quicker since i have some bacteria established already? ((so i think i do)).
 

b.greene

AC Members
Jan 30, 2008
674
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Northern Michigan
Hey Katuuuz, the mini cycle is normal - you are not back to square one. Keep on keepin on. You are already rolling. Cute baby, by the way. Maybe you can pass this hobby on to your Godson some day. Tell him all the fish geeks were aware of him from the start;)
 

Joanne_3131

1 + a friend = 38 gallon tank
Just curious, but have you considered that the API test might be measuring total ammonia rather than free ammonia? When you use products that change the ammonia (harmful in small quantities to your fish) to ammonium (not harmful to fish), then the API test will measure both of them together, so you get a false positive reading in high quantities of ammonia. There are other types of tests out there that will give you two separate reading, one for "Free" ammonia (harmful) and the other for total ammonia. Maybe Hagen is giving you the Free ammonia reading.

There is also two other points I want to ask about, first there was a point at which you changed how you were adding the conditioners etc to your tank. You said you had been adding them after the full water change, which means there was probably plenty of time for the chlorine to kill your bacteria. Possibly your tank was not starting the cycling process, because of this and to much gravel vac action (I vac 1/4 to 1/2 the tank every two weeks) rather than just water changes.

The second point I want to put out there is that in order for your tank to cycle it has to have ammonia, and so if you don't allow some to build how can you expect the bacteria to grow in response? That is one of the biggest reasons you use cheap fish to cycle tanks. Most fish stores will take those fish back, probably not give you any money back, but they will happily resell unwanted fish. I guess what I am saying is to relax, watch the fish, make sure they aren't lethargic or gasping at the surface, believe me you will notice when they are having issues, but at this point in your cycling you shouldn't be doing such large water changes or so often (unless you notice your fish having difficulties).

The last thing I want to say is that if you have stuff growing on the glass of your tank your tank is well on it's way to cycling. It is an extremely good sign, but your tank is probably not fully cycling. This will eventually settle down, but for a while it will feel like an invasion from mars has taken place with brownish goo all over. Just remember that it won't last forever, and the best thing you can do is to allow it to grow on the back wall of the tank behind stuff. The fish will eat it, and it will help your tank in the end.

This is my humble opinion, but I do hope it helps. BTW, that's a pretty small load on such a big tank, I don't think adding the extra few fish will matter much except to slowly bring your levels further up. The pH will also lower when you put wood and other things into your tank, so that is normal also.
 

Coler

AC Members
Jan 30, 2007
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is it basically like starting over? for example, each new load i bring in am i going to have to wait for the bacteria to grow to catch up? or will it at least grow quicker since i have some bacteria established already? ((so i think i do)).
Yep you have to wait for bacteria to catch up. Its far quicker than a full cycle though. Never add more than half the bioload in the tank at any one go. Leave at least one week between adding fish.
 

Joanne_3131

1 + a friend = 38 gallon tank
Yep you have to wait for bacteria to catch up. Its far quicker than a full cycle though. Never add more than half the bioload in the tank at any one go. Leave at least one week between adding fish.
This is such great advice, wish I had followed or had advice like that when I first did fish. In fact, this thread has a lot of really good information in it. :)
 

katuuuz

negative bacteria magnet
Jul 22, 2008
348
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40
CT, USA
This is such great advice, wish I had followed or had advice like that when I first did fish. In fact, this thread has a lot of really good information in it. :)
yeah it wasn't the initial idea, but i'm glad it manifested. along with this thread, i'm doing a fishless cycle in a 3 gallon to one day house a wild type betta on aquabid sent from indonesia. after both tanks cycle i'm gonna write up a doc of my personal experience with both methods of cycling. fishy/bacteria transfer and fishless. also have a fishy 20 cycling with no established media transfer.

hopefully someone will find it helpful, and it'd be the least i can do for everyone who helped... maybe save them time explaining to the next generation of newbs.
 
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