i cant take the wait any longer

I have a question based on the posts pertaining to stress coat and tap water condioners--If stress coat is used, is there a need for Tap Water Conditioner and Ammo-Lock? API Tap Water Conditioner claims to break the Chloramine bond where as stress coat claims to just remove them(the chloramines).....a difference? Amm-Lock claims to remove up to 5ppm of ammonia, does strees coat remove (convert) enough to do a good job (I'm guessing Ammo-Lock removes so much for "anti-spiking" purposes?)? Ammo-Lock also works as a de-chloranator..........hmmm

BTW--Well said Shawn
 
tarquin375 said:
I have a question based on the posts pertaining to stress coat and tap water condioners--If stress coat is used, is there a need for Tap Water Conditioner and Ammo-Lock? API Tap Water Conditioner claims to break the Chloramine bond where as stress coat claims to just remove them(the chloramines).....a difference? Amm-Lock claims to remove up to 5ppm of ammonia, does strees coat remove (convert) enough to do a good job (I'm guessing Ammo-Lock removes so much for "anti-spiking" purposes?)? Ammo-Lock also works as a de-chloranator..........hmmm

BTW--Well said Shawn
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I'm no chemist, but it's said to be basically the same stuff. Companies like API try to make the hobby "idiot-proof", at the same time, maximizing profits by selling redundant products. What I understand to happen is that chlorine is de-toxified by breaking the bond. Chloramines(if your water contains any) will produce ammonia as a bi-product of de-toxification. Ammonia is then further de-toxified by converting to NH4+

Hope that helps a bit.
 
I believe Shawn is correct. Both products create a "safe" ionized version of ammonia (ammonium / NH4) which is still available to the bacteria.
 
shawnhu said:
I started out 15 years back doing a fish-cycle. 2 Months ago, I tried the fishless-cycle. My next tank, will be a fish-cycle again. How much "cost" are you willing to put up to avoid fish-cycling? The cost of watching an empty tank for 6-8 weeks? How's it better for the tank in the "long run"? Would the tank brew healthier bacteria that can sing the fish a good night song? Please elaborate.
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If a tank is cycled with a bioload capable of producing ammonia levels of 1ppm per day, then the bacteria colony it will establish will have a biocapacity of around 1ppm. Meaning, if 3 danios are used, then the eventual stocking cannot exceed the waste production of those 3 danios without experiencing a cycling event. If, however, you cycle with a bioload of 5ppm, then the biocapacity of your inital bacteria colony will be 5ppm. In other words, you can stock more fish immediately without the worry of a cycling event. This is good for tanks where you want to add everything at once, such as with cichlids or in saltwater. I guess I just have the patience to watch an empty tank for 6-8 weeks, cuz I've done it many times in my 20+ years of keeping tanks. Fishy cycling works too, but I'd rather avoid burning the gills of the fish I choose to care for..
 
Corax said:
If a tank is cycled with a bioload capable of producing ammonia levels of 1ppm per day, then the bacteria colony it will establish will have a biocapacity of around 1ppm. Meaning, if 3 danios are used, then the eventual stocking cannot exceed the waste production of those 3 danios without experiencing a cycling event. If, however, you cycle with a bioload of 5ppm, then the biocapacity of your inital bacteria colony will be 5ppm. In other words, you can stock more fish immediately without the worry of a cycling event. This is good for tanks where you want to add everything at once, such as with cichlids or in saltwater. I guess I just have the patience to watch an empty tank for 6-8 weeks, cuz I've done it many times in my 20+ years of keeping tanks. Fishy cycling works too, but I'd rather avoid burning the gills of the fish I choose to care for..
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Perhaps you already have OTHER tanks to keep you busy. Please put yourself at the shoes of others, others that do NOT have other tanks with FISH in it to keep them occupied. No doubt that the "turbo full stock" method of fishless is appealing to some, but not to all. Hence this debate of fishless and fish-cycle still remains, till this day. As you can see, this particular OP is also using plants. Plants will also consume ammonia, minimizing the effects of a new cycling event. Keep in mind, his tank is 46G, not 4. Rome was not built in one day...

My point is, the OP had his reasons for doing things his way. I just didn't find it necessary to slander anyone for doing things a particular way, especially when he is responsible about it.

P.S. I know plenty about fishless-cycling. I have a mini-tank fishless-cycling everyday to keep high levels of bacteria on an emergency basis. The tank has nothing but filter materia, saturated with bacteria. I can easily remove 8 ppm of ammonia within 12 hours in the small tank. When it really comes down to it, it's not how many years of the hobby one is in, it's how much they are willing to learn more and be open to new ideas.
 
shawnhu said:
Perhaps you already have OTHER tanks to keep you busy. Please put yourself at the shoes of others, others that do NOT have other tanks with FISH in it to keep them occupied. No doubt that the "turbo full stock" method of fishless is appealing to some, but not to all. Hence this debate of fishless and fish-cycle still remains, till this day.
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Boredom is no excuse to put fish into a harmful situation that can easily be avoided with a little patience.
 
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