As for cross breeding in the wild, there is a good example that is happening where I live. The atlantic salmon from the fish farms keep on escaping and cross breeding with the pacific salmon to produce hybrids.
I hate killing babies :(
- Thread starter RyJ
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Oh really? Hmm...eventually we may get to the point where there will only be ONE type of Salmon, if they keep cross breeding - although this will take some time.
I'd like to know what species you are talking about. It sounds interesting.
I do realize that very similar species DO cross breed, however species that aren't that closely related (such as the Demspy and Convict) do not cross-breed in the while.
I'm just stating the fact that it can be upseting if you spawn your fish and find out that one or both of the parents isn't what you thought.
Like I said, I am not against the Parrot Fish. I don't know enough about it to really comment.
Er, no Seaman, you misintrepreted what I said.
Humans "crossing" isn't a good example becase humans are all Homo sapiens, if that (my psych professor say race is a myth, but that's another topic). Breeding humans like that is more like breeding different varities of the same fish; crown tail to veil tail betta for example.
Ditto with dogs now. A cocker spaniel and a labrador are both Canis familaris (or Canis lupis familaris), which is more like humans.
What I said was Darwin postulated was that the first dogs kept my men were probably hybridized into Canis familaris. He might not even be right (Darwin was wrong about a lot of details) but that plants and animals do hybridize in the wild is true. Hybrdization does occur in the wild. Many species in the wild have to be hybrid from other, extinct species. Species come and go, that's the way of the world.
Anyway, mixed cichlids differ because sometimes its hard to tell what fish in an aquarium is a parent and what the species could end up. These fish become hard to sell - they can be infertile and even if they look like one species they get half their genes from another parent. Selling them as one parent is deciteful. Assessing what behaviors and physical needs those kind of fish have is also a problem. Many of these fish often have physical problems. And their genetic make up can mean they exhibit qualities that aren't expressed well in the parent fish (being much bigger than either parent for example). And it is impossible to breed these fish true.
All fish are not hybrids. Intermediary forms died out to leave a group of fish with similar characterestic. The animals differ genetically but to say all fish are hybrids is naive and probably not even true no matter how you look at it.
I agree with Oscar_Mania that with care, it might be interesting to see what hybrids amount to. None of the cichlids commonly hybridized are in danger of extinction. The fear is that the fish get into purebred stock somewhow (even after several generations, if they are able to breed and end up looking like one parent).
I read somewhere the black molly is a hybrid of Pocellia species for example. Petstore bettas I've read can be mutts of various Betta species.
Even though hybridization happens in the wild, many aquarists dont encourage it for those reasons.
And it still encourages bad fish keeping among breeders in SE Asia, which sell their fish to the U.S..
Genetic diversity = good in the wild. Why? With changing factors (new predators, new prey, changing enviorment) an animal might find itself with the right genetic attributes to survive or even take advantage new circumstances.
Genetic diversity = bad in the aquaria (Genetic diversity to the length of hybridization). Why? Because it makes the fish harder to take care of, to categorize, and it can pollute good blood lines.
So if you like the parrot fish, no one is taking yours.
Humans "crossing" isn't a good example becase humans are all Homo sapiens, if that (my psych professor say race is a myth, but that's another topic). Breeding humans like that is more like breeding different varities of the same fish; crown tail to veil tail betta for example.
Ditto with dogs now. A cocker spaniel and a labrador are both Canis familaris (or Canis lupis familaris), which is more like humans.
What I said was Darwin postulated was that the first dogs kept my men were probably hybridized into Canis familaris. He might not even be right (Darwin was wrong about a lot of details) but that plants and animals do hybridize in the wild is true. Hybrdization does occur in the wild. Many species in the wild have to be hybrid from other, extinct species. Species come and go, that's the way of the world.
Anyway, mixed cichlids differ because sometimes its hard to tell what fish in an aquarium is a parent and what the species could end up. These fish become hard to sell - they can be infertile and even if they look like one species they get half their genes from another parent. Selling them as one parent is deciteful. Assessing what behaviors and physical needs those kind of fish have is also a problem. Many of these fish often have physical problems. And their genetic make up can mean they exhibit qualities that aren't expressed well in the parent fish (being much bigger than either parent for example). And it is impossible to breed these fish true.
All fish are not hybrids. Intermediary forms died out to leave a group of fish with similar characterestic. The animals differ genetically but to say all fish are hybrids is naive and probably not even true no matter how you look at it.
I agree with Oscar_Mania that with care, it might be interesting to see what hybrids amount to. None of the cichlids commonly hybridized are in danger of extinction. The fear is that the fish get into purebred stock somewhow (even after several generations, if they are able to breed and end up looking like one parent).
I read somewhere the black molly is a hybrid of Pocellia species for example. Petstore bettas I've read can be mutts of various Betta species.
Even though hybridization happens in the wild, many aquarists dont encourage it for those reasons.
And it still encourages bad fish keeping among breeders in SE Asia, which sell their fish to the U.S..
Genetic diversity = good in the wild. Why? With changing factors (new predators, new prey, changing enviorment) an animal might find itself with the right genetic attributes to survive or even take advantage new circumstances.
Genetic diversity = bad in the aquaria (Genetic diversity to the length of hybridization). Why? Because it makes the fish harder to take care of, to categorize, and it can pollute good blood lines.
So if you like the parrot fish, no one is taking yours.
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If fish are all one type of animal, then bears, dogs, monkeys, rabbits and humans are all one type of animal.
Fish were the first vertebrate animals. They have been evolving to utilize resources since then, since amphibians crawled on land and gave rise to reptiles and then while the reptiles gave birth to birds and mammals.
They have had a lot of time to diversify. There are many kinds - true sharks, boney fish, etc, not to mention the smaller family groups we traditionally divide them into.
Fish are one kind of animal is one of the lamest things I've ever heard.
They have had a lot of time to diversify. There are many kinds - true sharks, boney fish, etc, not to mention the smaller family groups we traditionally divide them into.
Fish are one kind of animal is one of the lamest things I've ever heard.
Seaman
Shrimp gumbo, shrimp salad etc...
Let me reitterate....I shouldnt have said "one type of animal" I should have said the tipe of fish that were crossed to make the blood parrot are in the same genus but not the same species....thats not like crossing a dog and a horse...two totally different genus's all together.
its not like they crossed a shark and a stingray (two tottaly different genus's) blood parrots came from (most believed source) crossing Cichlasoma erythraeum and Cichlasoma severum wich are two fish who are in the same genus (notice the name cichlasoma is the same). just like breeding a donkey and a horse to make a mule....two animals from the same genus "Equus" but different species.
also why is it people are only against the blood parrot what about the OB peacock or the Neon Jewel.
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Or the Jelly Bean Parrot? Or even the Parrot that has been bio-engineered to have little or no caudal fin? All dumb and worthless...unless you are competing in a science fair.
The problem is keeping the specie pure in the hobby. Very few places now offer true Trimacs...one of the "base blends" for many of the hybrid monsters available today. And the "Red Devil"...although NOT a fish that has been whole scale manipulated, but one that has been crossed with Citrinellum and Labiatus. The majority of the fish for sale as Red Devils are actually bas tard children of these two bred in ponds in Florida...or home aquariums...and sold to the hobbyists as THE Red Devil. There is a list of fish that are just disappearing.
Do the naysayers think it's OK to go into a store and buy a couple fish that are listed as Trimac, breed them and either sell or give away the fry to more unsuspecting hobbyists...when what they got is acctually a Flowerhorn blend? There's no problem in conserving the species?
Hybridized fish suck. You can do all the whining and moaning and "save the little fishie" explanations you want.
Seaman: You mentioned
The problem is keeping the specie pure in the hobby. Very few places now offer true Trimacs...one of the "base blends" for many of the hybrid monsters available today. And the "Red Devil"...although NOT a fish that has been whole scale manipulated, but one that has been crossed with Citrinellum and Labiatus. The majority of the fish for sale as Red Devils are actually bas tard children of these two bred in ponds in Florida...or home aquariums...and sold to the hobbyists as THE Red Devil. There is a list of fish that are just disappearing.
Do the naysayers think it's OK to go into a store and buy a couple fish that are listed as Trimac, breed them and either sell or give away the fry to more unsuspecting hobbyists...when what they got is acctually a Flowerhorn blend? There's no problem in conserving the species?
Hybridized fish suck. You can do all the whining and moaning and "save the little fishie" explanations you want.
Seaman: You mentioned
. Exactly what are those fish that you are mentioning that make the finny freak.
Giving away the fry would be a bad idea....i agree with that because thats what polluts blood lines and such...agreeing still.....but saying killing a certain fish just because it is a hybrid is wrong....there are hybrid stripers that are one of the biggest game fishes too.....i agree it is wrong to sell all the fry and stuff like that and pollute the blood lines further....but for the home aquarium it is really neat to see fish evolve in your tank from two different fish......i think it would be cool to see what they would look like how they act etc....
So do you believe EVERYONE will be responsible enough and not sell or give the fry away? The majority of people which buy fish are rather ignorant when it comes to breeding them. I didn't encourage or even want my Demspy and Convict to spawn - they did it on their own.
I am responsible and would have kept these hybrids at my house - hmm, however, I wonder...where would I have room for hundreds of hybrids? Maybe I should also put a big red sticker on the tank saying ''Warning!! Danger - Mutant Fish Present - DO NOT RELEASE!!''
Would it have been more suitable if I used the fry as feeder fish? BTW...I killed them as they were eggs. Either way - they are dead.
