Ick treatment advice needed

[Slashdogg]

Hi.

I was really hoping to not have to be posting in this forum... I hate it when pets get sick.

Equipment:
All glass 15 Gallon (60cmx30cmx30cm)
Aquaclear Mini Power Filter with 2 sponge inserts (carbon removed)
100W heater
15W AquaGlo Lighting
Plane ol' gravel substrate

Fauna:
7 black neons
5 bronze cories
1 betta

The tank is moderately planted with Java Fern, dwarf anubias, and anacharis.

Parameters:
Temp: 26º C
pH: 7.3
Amm: 0ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: +- 40ppm (due for a waterchange today, normally drop to 10ppm after waterchange)

I had an ich breakout after the neons were introduced. The cories started flashing a lot, but they never actually got white spots on them. I treated the tank with this pretty budget looking ick remedy called "Marltons anti ick". It advises treating half doses for neons, so instead of 1 drop per 5 litres I went with 1 drop per 10 litres and added 5 drops (carbon was removed).

This was 12 days ago. 6 days after the first treatment I did a big water change (60%) and retreated. Now the betta has some white spots, but the neons are looking much healthier (some still have spots though). Today I bought Jungle labs Ick Clear Tank Buddies. All fish are behaving reasonably normal (besides some flashing) and are eating.

Here are my questions:
1. Has anyone used either of the meds I mentioned (Marltons anti Ick and Jungle Labs Ick Clear Tank buddies)? Which would you guess is better?

2. Would the cories\neons be able to handle salt?

3. Would the cories\neons be able to handle a temp of 85º F (29º C)?

4. Should I try the new meds (Jungle Labs) or persist with the old one, maybe increasing the dosage? Or should I try the old "crank heat add salt" remedy?

I live in South Africa so many products that are possibly readily available at walmart will be completely unheard of down here.

I'd really appreciate any advice/suggestions/experiences/answers to my questions.

TIA

Ryan.

 

[Nuriel]

ick is easy to get rid of- i am not good at calculating celcius to farenheight (spelling sucks too) but if uyou raise your temp to 86 degrees f. (the fish you listed wont mind) and add a few tablespoons of salt with every water change. wait about two weeks after you see no symptoms of the parasite before lowering the water temp and if you want still to add a bit of salt it will do your tank good.

 

[daveedka]

In answer to your questions:

[/QUOTE]1. Has anyone used either of the meds I mentioned (Marltons anti Ick and Jungle Labs Ick Clear Tank buddies)? Which would you guess is better?

I have not checked out either of those two meds, but the ingredients list should reveal the real truth. Malechite green, and or Formalin are about the best meds available, copper is IMO and IME extremely dangerous despite being effective.

2. Would the cories\neons be able to handle salt?

Absolutely for short term treatment

3. Would the cories\neons be able to handle a temp of 85º F (29º C)?

Most likely, but pay close attention to oxegen levels, cories like a lot of 02 so you may need to adjust surface turbulence and circulation

4. Should I try the new meds (Jungle Labs) or persist with the old one, maybe increasing the dosage? Or should I try the old "crank heat add salt" remedy?

IMO Salt is far and above any other remedy available for so many reasons it isn't funny. Heat speeds the process with treatment so it is a great help as well, but the salt is the key.

Details to all of this as well as extra info you may need can be found here. please read the whole article I know my opinion is biased, but I really do think it will be worth your time to read it.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759

ick is easy to get rid of- i am not good at calculating celcius to farenheight (spelling sucks too) but if uyou raise your temp to 86 degrees f. (the fish you listed wont mind) and add a few tablespoons of salt with every water change. wait about two weeks after you see no symptoms of the parasite before lowering the water temp and if you want still to add a bit of salt it will do your tank good.

Nuriel, Right concept, but not enough detail to prevent disaster. salt dosing has to be specific and understood well, as does treatment period. Not enough salt and you still have ich, short the treatment and you still have ich, go too far past on either and you unnecessarily risk your tank inhabitants. But as said the concept is correct.

BTW 86*F= 30*C

Dave

 

[Slashdogg]

Thanks for the reply Dave.

I'm really worried about adding salt now... 2 of the cories have been acting pretty kooky since day one. One of them kind of blows bubbles at the top of the tank all the time (except for feeding time, then he'll go forage) and another one has really random crazy spells of swimming really fast and bumping into things. How sure are you that cories can handle it? I dont mean to doubt you or your excellent article (it answered questions as they came up in my head, could you stop reading my mind now please ) I'd just like to make 100% certain that they'll be ok.

I'm assuming that bettas can handle a temp of 86ºF as well as salt because thats how bettatalk.com recommends ick be treated as well.

As for the ingredients... The marlton's Anti Ick doesn't even have the active ingredient listed (eek! it is blue though) and the Jungle Labs has "victoria green" as the active ingredient. Do you know if that is another name for malachite green?

Thanks again for your willingness to help (and your actual help!).

Ryan.

 

[daveedka]

Not sure on Victoria Green, but may be the same thing or similar enough. I am sure that cories can handle the salt in correct dosage. Sure enough to use it without hesitation on any cories I might own. The bhavior you describe (the blowing bubbles thing) is more like a symptom of wanting more oxygen. the spastic swimming is something I have seen frequently in stressed catfish, but have no recent experience with cories. No matter what ich is still the big issue, and the salt/ temp is far less stressful than ich is.

One of the most difficult parts of making reccomendations is the potential for things to not go well despite good reccomendations. I know for a certainty that salt and cories will be fine together for the treatment period, I don't know for a certainty that your cories will survive ich, meds, salt, temps, or even anything else. It's a rough hobby in that respect.
I do know for a fact that half dosages of meds are not very effective as a rule, and full dosage of meds are pure he!! on a catfish of any kind. very few cats will survive full dosage meds, so salt is even more so the better option with catfish IMO.
Dave

 

[Slashdogg]

Thanks a lot Dave. I understand that noone can guarantee results on anything... I just wanted to be certain. I'm going to do another large water change tomorrow (again at about 60%), replace the carbon, start phasing in salt and raising the temp until 30ºC.

Thanks for all your help and advice. I'll keep you posted if anything happens.

 

[Nuriel]

One of the most difficult parts of making reccomendations is the potential for things to not go well despite good reccomendations. I know for a certainty that salt and cories will be fine together for the treatment period, I don't know for a certainty that your cories will survive ich, meds, salt, temps, or even anything else. It's a rough hobby in that respect.
I do know for a fact that half dosages of meds are not very effective as a rule, and full dosage of meds are pure he!! on a catfish of any kind. very few cats will survive full dosage meds, so salt is even more so the better option with catfish IMO.
Dave

Thanks for clarifing for me, Dave- I myself was not sure about the exact dosing for the salt, but I figured I wold get the ball rolling and give what limited info I know. I always use the googlester for key specifics but you are sure right- unspecified instuctions can lead to full-fledge disaster.
:cool2:

 

[valleyvampiress]

I treated for Ich using Daveedka's article as a guide and everything went fine. I have a 10g with a cory in it and it didn't seem to bother him that the salt (2tsp. per gallon) was beeing added to the water gradually. I also raised the temp to 86F. Within 2 days, the one fish that had white spots cleared up. I kept the salt in the water (making up for it through the water changes by adding it to the new water before it was put back in) for a week and a half. It's been a while since I've done treated for Ich, and all the fish are fine and happy now. So take it from my experience of easily getting rid of Ich, Daveedka's right, salt's the way to go. BTW, I used regular table salt as I've read that the high warnings of not adding iodized salt is a myth, and in fact does not have enough of the harmful chemical to even effect the fish.

 

[valleyvampiress]

Oh yes, also, as soon as I found out I had ich (I got it from one of my pristella tetras from Petsmart), the next thing I did after treating it was buy a quarentine tank. I suggest you do the same. You don't want to get ich again, or something worse for that matter!

 

[Shelzbells]

Here are my questions:
1. Has anyone used either of the meds I mentioned (Marltons anti Ick and Jungle Labs Ick Clear Tank buddies)? Which would you guess is better?

I have used the ick clear fizzing tablets before, and I swear by them!!! I only had to treat the tank once and the ICH was gone within a couple days. No fish were lost either. Everybody in the tank was fine after. I did do a 25% water change before adding the med. Then another one a week later. Maybe I just had good luck, but I was amazed how well that med worked for me.