Is this Ich?

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fishorama

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I say, based on my experience with ich, treat the entire tank, it's in there. Heat speeds up the ich lifecycle but doesn't usually kill it. You want a "real" drug. I like dyes, I'm old school but choose 1. Vacuum well between treatments to remove as much ich in the substrate as possible. Don't stop treatment until 10-14 days AFTER all visible spots are off all fish.

The basic idea is ich is on the fish, falls of into the substrate & then into the water column...& back onto the fish. You can't kill it on the fish or in the substrate so you're try to kill as much as possible in the water column. Don't mess around, choose a treatment & work hard to get it gone! It isn't always fatal but can be if you don't treat well enough.
 
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Apr 2, 2002
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There is a reason not all fish in a tank where ich is running wild will come down with it. If a fish has had and beaten ich, it often acquires an immunity. This is not a long term permanent immunity, but how short is not known. When it comes to research on most things fish, it is the aquaculture industry that is most involved, not the aquarium industry.

Most aquaculture involves food fish. The regulations regarding what medications and treatments are allowed relate to their safety in terms of what fish we will end up eating. A lot of what we in the hobby may use to treat ich and which will work fairly well are not legal to use on the food fish trade. And when it is not human health related, some meds are prohibited because they will harm the environment.

Not only do some fish which survive a bout of ich aqcuired immunity, but some species are more naturally resistant to it.There is, of course, science on all of this. I have just spent about 90 minutes searching for papers on ich becoming resistant to some ot the known most effective drugs. I have had no luck so far. What I did find was a lot of research into fish becoming immune and on the search for a vaccine which will prevent ich. The theory is that if fish can develop an immunity, There must be a way to bring this to play in a vaccine. However the search is still ongoing as science has not found a vaccine so far.

So I would ask the loach if he can provide any links to the science regarding which of the more effective ich treaments to which Ich has developed a resistance. I would like to add such info to my bookmark reference list for fish meds and diseases.The odd part is when I start to search for ich having acquired drugs resistance, the results are all about how fish have acquired an mmunity ich. I will keep looking.

For those who like the science, here is another good paper on ich.

Louise von Gersdorff Jørgensen,
The fish parasite Ichthyophthirius multifiliis – Host immunology, vaccines and novel treatments,
Fish & Shellfish Immunology,
Volume 67,
2017,
Pages 586-595,
ISSN 1050-4648,
{url{http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1050464817303674[/URL]
Abstract:
Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, the causative agent of white spot disease (ichthyophthiriasis) is a major burden for fish farmers and aquarists globally. The parasite infects the skin and the gills of freshwater fish, which may acquire a protective adaptive immune response against this disease, making vaccine strategies feasible. However, there is no prophylactic treatment available and repetitive treatments with auxiliary substances are needed to control the infection. Historically, a variety of drugs and chemicals have been used to combat the disease but due to changing regulations and recognition of carcinogenic and environmentally damaging effects the most efficient compounds are prohibited. A continuous search for novel substances, which are highly effective against the parasites and harmless for the fish is ongoing. These compounds should be environmentally friendly and cost-effective. This review presents recent progress within host immunology, vaccinology and a description of novel substances, which have been tested as treatments against ichthyophthiriasis.
 

the loach

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You are right, fish can develop immunity to ich, some species are more susceptible as others, and healthy fish don't have to get it at all (when water conditions are ok) that's why I said if you can catch the fish.. it's good to separate it and just treat that fish. Due to its life cycle, it might appear later in the tank but it doesn't have to. It could save unnecessary treatment on other fish and/or re infection in case of a resistant strain.

I wrote " there are ich strains now that are resistent to malachite green, temperature and salt, " but that was poorly worded.
I meant salt resistant to the usual cited levels, there are strains that now require at least 5 grams per liter /18.9 grams per gallon.
The heat resistant strain is called the "Florida strain" and requires at least 95 F to kill it. I've seen the research papers, don't have a link but you might be able to find it with "Florida strain"
The malachite green resistant strain has been around for 20+ years, I will have to look for a reference it must be from the aquarium industry though as malachite green is not allowed on food fish so I doubt you would find studies on it there.

Also FYI, there is now a medication (I will have to look up the name) that kills ich on the fish and only needs 1 treatment. Also an aquarium industry invention, not (yet) allowed in aqua culture.
 

fishorama

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I'm not doubting there can be ich immunity for a while. I think I read something TTA posted or pm'd ( I'll look later). But low levels of ich can also hide in the gills of less susceptible or less exposed fish. Better to be safe & treat the entire tank. Pick a treatment & follow through...for a seemingly long time. I do (have done in the past) treat for 10-14 days after ALL signs are gone, but luckily I've only had it a relatively few times over the years. Vaccum well before each redosing each time, that removes many of the ich "critter stages" (in the substrate & water column but not on the fish).

High heat only speeds the ich lifecycle a bit. It used to be considered a "cure" but there is a heat resistant form & fish like like whiteclouds are very stressed by high heat...Ich is very treatable if caught early, don't goof around!
 
Apr 2, 2002
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F fishorama and orther curious about this.

Go here https://scholar.google.com/

Type any of the following in the search box:
Ichthyophthirius multifiliis immune response
ichthyophthirius multifiliis immunity in fishes
ichthyophthirius multifiliis immune tissues

There will be an overlap in the results of the above and there will also be results unique to each term. Searching Google Scholar is often very term intensive and the terms are much more scientific than on normal Google search.
 
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