Kansas proves how primitive we are...

nursie said:
The most interesting and thought provoking comment I've heard about evolution is if there is evolution, why do we still have monkeys...I'm pretty openminded about the whole thing and that made me think.


A very simple explanation I heard to this, was as the species spread to other areas, some areas required different tasks/skills, so that group would evolve to meet them. Then that group would spread out and meet more challenges, etc. Very simplistic, I know there are much more complicated explanations :D

I wish people would get as worked up about all the other things that are/are not included in the public education system. Since it does not deal with religion, people are ok to ignore the shortcomings. I already dread having to tell my son why we don't celebrate Columbus day, why women are barely mentioned in history books, etc, but I also won't go along with these one sided teachings.
 
guys, lets not start another debate, remember how the last one went? I'm sure some of us still remember, if not, just take my word for it, it was ugly.

anyways, schools all across america have been teaching unproven theories for a long time. both evolution and creation and any other theory that explains the begining of the earth is unprovable.
in many classrooms, the teacher gives is opionion on science or other subjects and I'm sure a teacher doesn't know everything, so why get mad when the system introduces another theory.

do we really want our schools to outlaw religion? this is the next generation(I am one of them) and if we do we will outlaw religion in the nation. is that the direction we want to go in?
I'm not speaking for just one religion, I'm speaking for everybody out there who's freedom is in jeapordy just because of their beliefs. nobody should be untolerated because of their beliefs. the only people who would outlaw religion would be people who have different beliefs, and are we to give preferance to intolerant beliefs?

sorry if I'm offending anybody, that's not my purpose in writing this. I just want to calm everybody down and say that this site has had discussions like this before which didn't turn out good. ;)
 
"I just want to calm everybody down and say that this site has had discussions like this before which didn't turn out good."

I know, I used to close those threads myself.. Didn't like it then, don't like it now.
 
Holly...history is a great example of how manipulated and sanitized information taught in schools is.

My high school history teacher was an African American...an oddity in the small farming commuinity I lived in.
When it got to the treatment of the American Indians...and slavery..he had a whole different slant on things than what was in the books.
Looking back..I guess I should thank whover was enlightened enough to hire him and let him teach in the manner he did. He was my favorite teacher.
 
Just to make something clear, simply because I believe evolution is a sound scientific theory and the best possible explanation for why the world is the way it is today doe not make me an atheist, God hater, or anti-Christian. It just means that I think the science there is well founded, heavily researched and challenged.

From what I've read, I.D. is not nearly as well accepted in the scientific community. Based on that, I would say it doesn't warrant a side by side mention with evolution in a grammar or high school science class. It certainly ought to be brought up as a mention of a proposal gaining ground but that level of schooling doesn't really dive all that deep into this stuff. To introduce every theory and thought on creation would likely get confusing if not overwhelming.

I do think its offensive to refer to Kansas as being simple for their teaching of I.D. but I do disagree with what they've done because it mixes religion with science. If you're going to do that you need to mix ALL religions with science. That means instead of teaching evolution and intelligent design you'd have to teach every creation story from every religion in the world in order to eliminate any religious bias. Seems easier to stick with what is purely scientific and let a person's faith guide them the rest of the way.

FWIW, I am not Godless and believe that its far more amazing to believe a higher power created a universe in a flash of light that was able to change over millions of years into what we are today.
 
If evolution were true, you would be able to selectively breed an animal into something else...and have it remain that something else.......ever hear of that happening ?? They can't even do that with fruitflies and they go through zillions of generations in weeks..(that's why they're used for these things).........they have never been able to breed a fruitfly into something other than....a fruitfly....
I have been trying to avoid this potentially problematic thread, but when someone misstates the work in my field, I get a little upset.

Fruitfly generation time at 25 degrees C is 10 days.

We actually try very hard to keep our flies from evolving into other things. We are generally looking for the effects of changes in a single gene, so we try to keep the genetic background as similar as possible between strains.

Despite our best efforts, the "wildtype" strains we use are quite different from wild flies, having adapted to a cushy life in vials. They are slow, fat and dumb compared to flies that haven't been living in vials for hundreds of generations.

As far as Darwin's finches, the idea is that the selection for beak shape is changed by the conditions. If conditions favor the original beak shape, then the beaks will revert. I won't argue as to whether that argument is circular, but it is consistent with theory.
 
First of all, I think this is a very interesting tread. Second many of the post do seem angry and somewhat offensive.

As a science teacher I really do not like the idea of state wide law that specifically addresses the teaching of evolution or intelligent design. However, from what I know the law dose not force schools to teach intelligent design, it could be worse. In my opinion this is a local issue that should be treated differently is different schools. In some districts there is little or no wish for intelligent design to taught in classrooms.

However, it is important to teach students about evolution. Evolution and Natural Selection (natural selection is often presented as being evolution) have become important issues in many scientific fields, not just biology. It is also important to realize that evolution covers a wide Varity issues. Few people would argue that microevolution or natural selection occurs in the wild. We can observe this in the wild. The controversy arises when people discuss the extent of macroevolution and the origins of the earliest life. There are numerous theories which give possible explanations to how that happens. This is a very exciting and controversial part of Paleontology (study of past life) and recently has taken a close look at how DNA and RNA really function within organisms.

I believe that many biology teachers explain that some of the theories about how life first formed are imperfect. Not necessarily wrong, but unfinished. I also think it is important to explain why students are being taught evolution, and to give maturing student the opportunity to express their ideas about evolution. I have seen this done may different ways, class debates, written papers, and general class discussion. Any teacher should gauge the maturity and level tolerances levels of their class before attempting this. A teacher should also do their best to keep their personal opinions in check when providing constructive feedback. Unfortunately, there are also many bad science teachers; teacher too nerves to delve into this subject, or teachers that simply do not have the time.

Teachers should also take they time to thoroughly discuss what a scientific theory is.

In my short career I have only worked with younger students and haven’t dealt much with this topic (Although I would love to teach it). I do think that evolution is a fascinating and feasible subject. I personally do not doubt that it has been going on for billions of years. This does not mean I think it leave no room for religion or a creators hand. This belief of mine is my personal belief that I constructed while learning about the particulars of evolution. I think students should be given all the good scientific information they can get, and then allowed to form their own opinions, without being shunned. In high school many students are just starting develop the ability to make difficult rational and emotional decisions.

Lastly someone mentioned that science does not prove things, I agree science tries to give the best (often but not always simplest) explanation of natural phenomenon it can. Scientist also often tries to disprove certain things. Science is always evolving, and no doubt will teach something to students that will be seen as at least partly incorrect in the future. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bother to teach science. It means that we should teach student to understand what science is, and that being skeptical is a good thing.
 
:) Sorry that was crazy long, but there is no simple answer to such a complicate topic.
 
morgurnda said:
We actually try very hard to keep our flies from evolving into other things.
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roflol....a vision of this popped into my head..
fly%20bart%20fly.gif
 
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