LFS let down

[chefkeith]

Spunky- what kind of fish did you get and how many?
if you got 50% credit I think they probably done you a favor. There are about 15 LFS's within a 15 mile radius of my home, all with the same policy. No warranties on live fish.

Personally, I almost expect 50% loses when I buy small young fish. (but with larger older fish I expect no fatalities). That's one of the reasons why it's important to Quarantine new arrivals for a few weeks. There will be times when 100% survive the quarantine period, but there might also be times when 90-100% die during quarantine.

You may feel like your getting cheated, but it's only $5. That's not something worth arguing about because now you'll probably be remembered as a difficult customer. That reputation is not something you want.

 

[Spunky]

Wow, lots of comments, hope I hit all the points… one at a time...so here I go! :cool2:

With those two comments, it sounds to me as though he was implying that you have a nitrates problem. In conditions of extremely high nitrates, the original fish will adapt to the condition (to a point), but most new fish will not be able to adapt and will die -- especially bottom feeders. Whether they adapt or not depends on the type of fish and just how high the nitrates were.

How many water changes did you do?

As to how he ascertained that you have high nitrates -- they must have been pretty high when the tested the water and he may have made a guess as to how high they were before you did the water changes.

If they were high when he tested the water, the water would not have been "okay", so he's contradicting himself. This is why it's important to get the exact numbers from him.

I suggest you buy your own liquid kit and test the water yourself. That way you'll know the state of the water before you go into battle. Most LFS in our area use the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master kit.

Actually I did test the water myself. When the first fish died, I had 0 nitrites and about 10 nitrates (the color was right in the middle of the 0 and 20) As I was testing I did a 50% change. The next day after finding the rest of the dead ones I searched and finally found my new ammonia tester and that came out to .25. (not great, but after finding 4 more dead fish spending the night in my tank, I was not supper unhappy) I followed it with another 50% water change and ammonia was still in the same range (0 to .25) but a lighter color... i am guessing a .15 or so.

btw, is the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master kit more exact in meassuring? I have the tetra master kit, and it came with the Quick Dip brand tester stips... both with broad ranges.

 

[Spunky]

Also--while I can understand being sad, I must say--you bit your tongue? Several times, you mentioned wanting to correct him, but didn't. Well, as someone often faced with explaining technical information to non-tech people, I agree with what he did. I explain everything I can in laymen's terms, but there are somethings that just don't translate well. For these, I explain in much greater detail, and tell my listeners to let me know if they already know what I'm talking about. And, then, I actually expect them to tell me! You didn't indicate that you already knew what he was talking about, but were insulted that he 'talked down' to you. Your fault--not his. He's doing his job, and you didn't let him know it wasn't needed. Keep in mind--he deals with people every day who have no clue. Speaking up and saying, 'yes, I understand water quality and water parameter concerns' would have saved him time.

Sorry, for misleading, I wrote so much that I did not want to add too many details, but the convo did not go in exactly that order, it ranged from one topic to another, then back whenever we were not satisfied with the point. I thought he might know at least a tad about where I was at because of the convo I had when I got the fish (yeah, he remembered me) because I asked so many questions about what kind of rainbows they were and talked about the other types I researched online (He is the guy that orders the fish there.)

Also, when we first started the convo and where ever it fit in to convo I bought up how long my tank was set up, how long I had the filter, what was in the filter, what fish I had and for how long, my water parameters I checked at home. When he started talking about the water hardness, I replied, “ahuh, the Gh.” And after looked at me when i said and continued anyway, I did not trust myself to necessary be nice when talking about the water, so I just let him go on. By the time I felt cooled off we were on the next subject. (kept telling myself he did not hear me, but i am not any better at lying to myself than other people :thud: )

 

[Spunky]

In my zone, NO FISH STORE will give you warranty about any fish, no matter if it's a $1 or a $100 specimen, so this is not something I'm used to.

I am use to the opposite. The place I use to work had a fish tank I took care of, and with them I had to deal with a different LFS. When I first took over the tank was a mess, so unfortunately, to make a long story short, I got a pleco from them and it died right away, I went in and they found ammonia was the problem (that is when I truely realized the importance of test kits!) So, I was ready to leave, but the guy told me that they replace all of their fish that die, but require the water sample to check so that they can tell us what is wrong so we can go fix it and then come back and get a new fish. The other store here you can bring the fish back in 15 days with the right water stats, and get replacements.

Whenever you take your fish home, you have risks, and the LFS can not monitor all you did: what was the temp at the car in which you did the trip home, how you managed your fish out of the bag, how long you kept the fish in the bag. Also, a dropped bag will not always show any sign of phisical damage to the fish, but will likely kill them. (as happened to me)

To make it short, your warranty should expire after you put your 2 feet out of the store. I'm used to that way of thinking, and I've never seen people arguing with the owner of the store for a dead fish.

I just wanted to share how things work here in my country.

I agree warrantees are a gamble. And the majority of the time it is the person who bought them’s fault. My arguing was the fact that I assumed wrongly that I had a warrantee. Once I found out I did not have one, I dropped the whole dead fish side of things.

But like emg suggested I may just go in and mention that knowing there is no guarantee, I appreciate giving me ½ credit. Then say something to the effect that I struggled that night because I did not understand that there was no guarantee and I felt I was being told I was lying about my water sample. From there say again I appreciate the ½ credit and that he recognized a faithful customer that gives them 95% of her business.

Two things I remember from my human relations and mediation high school classes, “I” statements and sandwiching the bad comments with the good!

 

[Spunky]

FWIW--you can acclimate for too long. The problem is that unless there is a significant difference from your tank water and the LFS water, the longer the fish sit in the bag, the more the ammonia builds up. Not saying that contributed here, as 1.5-2 hours isn't that long, but just to establish that it CAN happen. I purchase fish in Denver, so by the time I get here, the fish have already been in the bag for 90 minutes to 2 hours, so I tend to acclimate pretty quickly--a small change in water parameters will always be less stressful than high ammonia levels.

I acclimate discus in the same manner you described. It may take a little over 3 hours but it works. Each time I let the discus out afterwards, they are perfectly happy and looking for food. You cant go wrong with this process. But I remove a 1/2 cup of water before I add a cup of water... But thats just me. I have never lost a fish doing this process.

next time I will try taking out the ½ c water from the bag when adding the ½ c tank water. And cut the times in half and only go 15 minutes, not 30. Thanks for the info!!

 

[Spunky]

Chances are these fish have had a rough last couple months of their lives so stress is pretty high and they may have only needed that little push to make the jump. As for his 6 week claim, what did you buy? must be a fairly un-popular fish or a slow store. I can't see him quarantining them for that long, that's for sure.

yeah, 15 2.5” Australian rainbow fish (I took home 9) mixed with left over mollies in a 20 gal tall can not be all that relaxed…

Yeah, not too many people know about rainbows, at least in my area. The bosemanni’s at petco have been in their tank for just short of a month. I do not tend to do fish business there, but whenever I go in to get something for my dog, I check on them, waiting for them to go half price or at least a sale… :dance: anything less than 11 bucks, would work better for my budget... not that i have room for them... :mad2:

If the water was noticeably yellow, why did you buy?

To be honest, I think I was just dumb, and too excited (it was a Christmas present from my parents.) I did not stop and think that a trustworthy LFS could every once in awhile have problems… I will defiantly be more observant next time.

 

[Spunky]

Personally, I almost expect 50% loses when I buy small young fish. (but with larger older fish I expect no fatalities). That's one of the reasons why it's important to Quarantine new arrivals for a few weeks. There will be times when 100% survive the quarantine period, but there might also be times when 90-100% die during quarantine.
You may feel like your getting cheated, but it's only $5. That's not something worth arguing about because now you'll probably be remembered as a difficult customer. That reputation is not something you want.

I have a Q tank, and would have used it, unfortunately, I came home to a sister frantically trying to change the water because she spilt toilet cleaner in it (long story short she tripped, got a nasty looking burse from the side of the tank, that or the cinder block stand, and I got a tank to clean.)

Expect 50% loses… wow… in my personal tank the only loses I had was a jumper, curious loaches that killed themselves in a Powerhead and breeding cichlids that killed their partners. I am not sure I could afford that…

It may have been only $5, and they may have seen me as a difficult customer, but if this out ways the fact that all of the regulars know me, and know the dealings with me in the past (such as my tendency to wait if there is a surge of customers for my turn to be helped, watching the python so that it does not spill over while someone runs to the back and grabs something and so on) then so be it. No offence to you, but in this instance I felt it necessary to stand my ground.

ps sorry everyone about so many posts, it was just easier that way...

 

[Aqualung]

I'm wondering why there was ammonia present in your water when you tested, but the lfs guy said it was "fine". I read over the posts quickly so forgive me if I missed something, but was the tank fully cycled?

 

[Spunky]

So far so good

My tank has been set up for 2 years, newish filter but old filter media, so it should not matter.

I only know the ammonia after the fish died, not before, which is when he tested it. Though 4 days before it was 0.

I tested my water today, 0 ammonia, o nitrites, about 10 nitrates. I put melafix in the tank, don’t know if it is unnecessary or not, but i wanted to be safe. and as long as no signs of illness come up, I wll leave it at that.