Looking for advice on s/w tank...

S

SamsonNY

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Hey guys,

I'm considering making my 400 gallon into s/w.

My personal experience with s/w is pretty much nill..

Please help:

My current 400 with the w/d (80 gallon total w/28 gal. bioballs) and the canister (mechanical filtration only).
Auto water changer obviously shut-off.
Lighting remaining the same.
U.V. remains.
Etc.


Questions my searches haven't been able to answer:
1.- Protein skimmer (preferably on sump).
Some yes and some say no. What's the real deal?
2.- Crushed coral substrate is a taboo. That's fine. I want to stick with my white sand. Any problems with that?
3.- Live rock. EVERYONE says that's a plus. But, honestly, I'm picturing a tank with corals (not live) and white sand and fish. That's it. (not my current fake corals). Is that feasible?
4.- Regarding corals and my ph: Will corals be enough to raise my Ph into the mid 8 range (currently sits in the low 7 range)? Just like my current set-up, I prefer to not use chemicals to alter the water parameters.


What else? Oh yes, fish.
I'd like:
1.- Clown trigger (I read somewhere to add him LAST and make sure he's the smallest; okay)
2.- DogFace Puffer
3.- Lionfish
4.- Snowflake eel

There was a post somewhere that the trigger and lion might be a problem while others have that combo with no major problems. Okay, but my underlying question is: Will these guys make an entertaining (ACTIVE) tank?

Feeding:
Shrimp and squid pieces (yes?)

What am I missing? Please criticize at will so that IF I go with s/w, I want to cover all of the bases first.

THANK YOU!!!

Richard.
 
Are you kicking the rays to the curb?

1--Protien skimmer. Yeah, opinions are mixed. They defintely help maintain better water conditions. If you're not keeping a reef, this is not as critical. For a tank that big, you are talking some serious money to get one large enough. I'd forgo it, personally, since that volume of water will be resistant to major shifts anyway, and with a light stocking load, you won't have a problem, IMO.

2--Sand is better.

3--Live rock is the best filtration you can get. 'Coral' usually means the living animal, not the same thing at all as a chunk of rock, or the coral skeletons sold for decoration. The w/d that you have should be emptied of the bio balls, and used as a sump only. The live rock and the sand will be the best filtration you can have. You'll need a modified clean up (snails, crabs, shrimp, stars and worms) since you want aggressive fish, but the rock and sand will still do better service than anything else.

4--Any decorative coral skeletons will help raise the pH, as will the salt mix. Don't think you will EVER hear anyone in the SW section advise the use of chemicals to bring pH up. You could try mixing a small batch of SW, see where it brings your parameters to.

For you fish choices: The puffer will probably become a quick favorite. These guys are like puppies--they will beg, and follow you around, and generally be pleasing. The lion will swim around some, more in a larger tank, but still, don't expect it to be incredibly active. They are lurker predators, and those pretty fins don't make them champion swimmers. Strong, yes, but not fast. The eel you won't see often, but having lots of rock work will make it more comfortable, and more sociable. When we had a cave for ours, he only came out for feeding. Now that there's a huge jumble of rock, he's constantly gaping out of some place. With enough rock, you could easily support 2-3 eels, if you're interested.

The big toss up will be the trigger. Clowns are gorgeous, and with this big a tank, you should be safe, but keep in mind: clowns are considered one of the most aggressive triggers available, and triggers in general are considered very aggressive fish. The clown will limit you to no live corals. It may bully and harrass the lion and the puffer. It might go beserk one night and kill anything that is in with it. You shouldn't trust your own fingers with it, especially as an adult.

For feeding--shrimp, mussels, squid, small chunks of fish. The shelled critters will be important for the puffer and trigger--the puffer will have to eat crunchies to help keep it's beak trim. Without shells to munch, their beak will overgrow and prevent them from eating.

Should be awesome--I'd love to see pics!
 
For a 400 gallon tank, a protein skimmer is going to be a big help in maintaining your water quality. On the sump or otherwise, it will really help you keep your levels of dissolved nutrients in the water down.

You can use crushed coral if you wish. It helps your saltwater's buffering capacity by adding calcium ions to the water. I use crushed coral and sand, but that's just my preference.

Live rock is GOOD for tank health and water quality. It is extremely porous, so it provides plenty of attachment space for your biofilter, it provides fish with hiding places that they desperately need in order to feel secure, and it often contains beneficial macroalgaes or other hitchhikers that are great for your tank's ecosystem. Do you have to have LR? No, but it sure makes a positive difference if you do have it.

Regarding PH, dead corals aren't going to alter it any. Saltwater usually ranges from 8.0 to 8.4 PH (someone yell at me if I'm wrong there) The only real changes you chould experience in PH are due to nitrogen cycle activity.
 
Thank you both for the replies. Very informative.
I've got a lot of things to consider here.

I didn't want to seem like an expert (which I'm not) regarding the chemicals. Regarding f/w rays, chemicals are usually a last resort and stable (but off, IE: ph) is better than fluctuation and chemicals. BUT, my mistake here is that I'm basing my f/w knowledge and trying to translate it to s/w. :p

kreblak,
My only disagreement is regarding the dead coral as I do believe they will raise the Ph somewhat. How much; I don't know?

OrionGirl,
I hear ya regarding the bioballs. WebMedia has VERY informative articles and Q and A sessions. The main theme there is dumping the bioballs and going with live rock, etc. filtration.
I guess I'm being stubborn here since I still prefer to stick to the "old fashioned" method here.

Anyway.... Thank you both again.

:cool:
 
I hear ya'! the transition from FW to SW requires a great deal of 'unlearning!'

Decorative dead coral will raise the pH. Crushed coral = decorative dead coral after being pounded by waves and hammers. The exact amount of increase will be based on the GH and specifically the KH of the water to begin with. All salt mixes contain buffers to raise the pH as well. My water sits about 7.2 after aerating from the tap, but hangs steady at 8.3 after adding the salt mix.

Truthfully, bio balls in your w/d will work the same in SW--the problem is when solids get into the bio balls. Trapped, they begin to decay, resulting in rising ammonia/nitrites/nitrate. The ammonia and nitrites are not a big deal--the bacteria can easily cope with a little spike. Nitrates are slower to be broken down, so the increase here isn't not as easily addressed bacterially, meaning water changes or macro algaes are the only way to remove them. If you want to setup a sump, you could easily stuff it full of live rock, and put the clean up crew here as well--protecting them from the attentions of the trigger and eel.

The main tank will have to have more than just some decorative corals--the hiding places for the fish are very important--especially the eel. Without an adequate home, they tend to go wandering, and end up mummified behind the entertainment unit.
 
Oops. :eek: I though the only effect dead coral had was to increase the buffering capacity of seawater. I didn't realize that it would actually raise the PH. Live and learn I suppose.
 
OrionGirl,
Thanks Again! You're a true asset on this forum. :cool:

I hear ya regarding the eel. I have a fire eel right now who is a true escape artist. (But, he's never gotten out of the 400; I've got the tank so tight that you couldn't squeeze a quarter into it. :p )

Richard
:)
 
Every so often I write something here that just gets totally contradicted. That's when people like Oriongirl, Corax, Boogiechillin, Reefscape, Fish Whisperer, Mogurnda and Voodoochild chime in and clean up my dirt. That's what is great about these boards, the facts usually make themselves known quickly.
 
You're not actually wrong--the coral will stabilize KH with carbon, and when this happens, the resulting calcium ions (and I forget if they increase or decrease) also cause a pH shift. The decorative stuff makes it happen, just a bit more slowly than crushed coral, since as with so much in this hobby, surface area matters. So, it's not an either/or with coral--you increase the KH, and increase the pH.

And that's the best part of being here--I certainly never really 'got' this stuff when I was in HS chem. Now, at least, it's starting to make sense.
 
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