Looking for advice on s/w tank...

Oniongirl,

"Your comment to kreblak seemed a bit strong--implying that people were deliberately providing bad advice in this thread."

That was not my intent. I am sorry it came over that way. I hate myths in this hobby. They cost people money and can kill animals. They take away possiblities and different ways of doing something. Sometimes I am a little too passionate about it.

Ray
 
SamsonNY,

"BUT, my set-up has the return water coming in from one bulkhead fitting at the bottom center (sort of) of the tank which then has a Y and 2 nozzle jets. I currently have them pointed parallel to the sand layer so that they push all of the stingray "crap" around the front corners and to the back so that the pvc pipes pick them up and send them to my w/d. (It works very well; I never vacuum the tank!)
However, it also causes the front of the tank (in front of the jets) to have two long "runways" where the sand gets pushed away. So, I have a problem here. Though the live sand bed (I guess) would eat the debris, I guess I could point the jets further upward. Not sure on this one."

That should not be a problem in your tank. It is large enough that they should be plenty of sandbed .

"Deep sand bed: My tank is 24" high. I really don't want 4" (minimum; there still seems to be a debate on how thick it should be) of sand leaving 20" of viewing area (which is less since the canopy overhangs the front by about an inch). "

There is a debate on sand bed depth. I have not found a single study that actually shows what depth is optimal or even what depth works. I've heard of tanks with only a 3" depth working fine. With your size tank; you could try a 4-5 inch depth in back and a 2 inch depth in front. If it does not work you could add more latter if you wish.

"My w/d is a beast: the bioball towers (2) are situated on either end and they extend upwards from the sump (they go much higher than the top rim of the sump). To keep the current set-up with the drain lines and bulkhead fittings, I have to keep the towers. Removing them or accessing anything under them (in the sump area; but not the central sump section) would be too difficult. "

People ran tanks with bio-balls for years. Some very attracctive and healthy tanks. You have to remember there are a lot of ways to do reef tanks. Some people have success doing it one way while for others the same way is a disasster. I still have one very healthy tank that uses an UGF.

"Long story short (too late, I know, sorry... ), I will keep the bioballs and stick with the old-fashioned method. I will be adding the protein skimmer (Red Sea Berlin Turbo XL).
I won't go with a deep sand bed.
BUT, can I have a 2" live sand bed? And, (don't remember where I read this), won't predatory fish pick-off the little critters?"

Of course you can. Many a nice tank has 2 inches of sand and bio-balls. Yes, predotory fish will eat your clean up crew and detrivores. We try too get the detrivores going in large numbers before we add the fish. And both have to be replenished in some tanks on a regular bases.

Ray
 
I know what you mean about myths- and I agree there are still a ton that float around, that won't de solved for years to come! But out of all the places you can go to get the best information- I have to say IMO that the net is at the absolute top. I read somewhere on RC a statement I found very true. It talked about LFS workers only desiring your money, while they want to provide you with good information on starting your new tank, they will take advantage of your ignorance and try to make the best of your business. They are a business, that's how all businesses run- on money- Without that and they have and nothing! But here, on the boards or over the net- nobody is getting paid for advice, no one wants your money, they just want to share their experiences with eachother to leanr from them. A good example of this is how my LFS workers tried to tell me my Silica Based sand would cause diatomoascious algae, and that I should buy all these phosphate sponges ect ect. Maybe it was their own ignorance that lead them to give me that advice, or maybe they actually believe in that myth- Bottom line, I've heard LFS workers say it, "Don't believe what the net tells you-" What!? Don't believe what the net tells you because they'll run us out of business, because they know the real way to keep a tank - that's what they know, but don't want you to know. I say a guy in my LFS just the other day sell a man over 7 fish all at one time! He got a Hippo Tang, Clowns, a Royal Gramma, and a Niger Trigger plus more! Did the LFS guy try and stop him? Nah..."Good luck with the reef! No refunds!" Then he gives him the evil glare ;).

Ah, it all boils down to the whole Matrix deal...control. LOL- nah it's not that deep. But hey, that's why wer're here huh? To learn from eachother experiences, and dissect those common myths, and bring out the truth in them- to benefit all fish keepers alike. And heck, I have fun doing it too!

Good luck SamsonNY, I see you've chosen some different paths than most, but I'm sure it will all work out for you if you take care of your system correctly. Good luck! :)
 
I hate myths in this hobby. They cost people money and can kill animals. They take away possiblities and different ways of doing something. Sometimes I am a little too passionate about it.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to FFS's taking advantage of that!!!
 
Sting you are right about the differences of information available. I also agree the net is a much better place for correct information. I just get very passionate about it. I learn all the time here on the different forums. That's why I am on them. But they do pass on questionable and even wrong information also. I've had to apollogize on boards before because I found out info I passed on from an "Expert" was wrong.

It is funny though. The Mom & pop aquarium stores that do the best are the ones that look after the customer and his tank instead of quick sales.

Ray
 
I have been thinking about this thread, and realized that something that is very important doesn't get nearly enough emphasis on this board. Whenever someone starts a thread "newbie starting out," I feel like the first response should be "read, read, read." Then decide what you want, because saltwater can be anything from a simple FO tank to a high-end reef. Then start figuring out the details of equipment.

There are many sources of info, books, your lfs, and the web. They all have advantages. In the end, you will be facing a heap of opinion, and will have to take some form of action on your own. And you will face the consequences, not us.

The reason I am focusing on books, is that a good book will provide a level of detail that is unavailable from the other sources. I have seen some excellent, well thought out advice given on this site, but it still pales in comparison to what you can get from a writeup in Fenner's CMA, or a book by Martin Moe, John Tullock, and so on. They are experts, and have taken a lot of time to write the stuff down clearly and systematically.
The downside of books is they can become obslolete. Especially about equipment. That's where talking to your fellow hobbyists and surfing sites like AC, Reefs.org or Reef Central comes in.

As far as I can tell, all the reading and research I have done isn't for day-to-day operation. It's for getting a system through the hard parts, like setting up and when the system goes out of balance for some reason.

Anyway, here's a summary for those who skipped the wad of text up there: If you expect to learn all you need about setting up a marine tank from the advice here, you're asking for trouble. Not because the advice is bad, but simply because what you really need is a good understanding of the principles of captive system function. I might suggest a sticky with the books and other info that a newbie should explore before starting to ask about specifics.
 
Thank you, Dave. I do understand where you're coming from.

Although I am not an expert on f/w stingrays, I have acquired quite a bit of knowledge on them and I am often asked to offer advice on them (on other boards). Please bear in mind that the f/w stingray hobby is not as saturated with information as s/w tanks (be it FO, FOWLR, etc...), and thus, not as much printed material or personal experience is available on them.

I try my best to give the novice as good advice as I can along with the clause that this is supplemental to: first a solid understanding of the high demands that are required to keep f/w rays by reading Ross' FW Rays, etc.

But, at the same time I try not to become overly excited when giving advice as I have seen others do (not here) and fall more into the preaching category. In the end, this is a hobby. Hobbies are meant to be fun (sure, they'll have their aggravations as well, but the fun and enjoyment better outweigh them!).

I do not expect to learn everything I need to know by asking questions here. I have done quite a bit of research and I'm taking everything in steps to have a proper system ready to go when the time is right. I feel fairly confident that I am ready to tackle this project (FO predator tank; possibly live sand but no live rock; current filtration set-up stays with the addition of the protein skimmer). And, the oddball questions that I seek answers to might still be posted here. I listen to (AND APPRECIATE) everyone's response. This board is EXTREMELY helpful.

Thanks to all.
Richard.
 
sorry for the sermon

Richard,
This wasn't particularly directed at you. The thread started me thinking, that's all. There was a lot of back and forth discussion on this thread about what is current good practice and what is myth, and the best defence against conflicting info is a lot of knowledge.
Off the soapbox and back to enjoying the hobby.
 
Not a problem at all Dave. I didn't take anything negatively and I didn't mean to put any kind of negative tone in my post, or anything like that.

I restarted this hobby a year ago (after a long time off) and I'm very glad I did. There's nothing like coming home after a long day and having a brandy while sitting in the den and watching a little piece of the underwater world right infront of your eyes.. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom