Mafia 100-The Witches Return-The Game

[[AC] Hammerhead 991]

I've looked through Narwhal's posts. There are a couple things that jump out. First is the length of the posts. Most of them are one or two lines. I said before that this always makes me raise an eyebrow. It seems to me that this is a good way to guard against saying "too much". Another thing that strikes me is the backhanded way Nar has been agreeing with me and tree. Tree is obnoxious, I only made one post that worked, and the rest was bunk. Reminds me of times when I've been scum and had to vote a certain way but didn't want to.

Nar, how are you feeling about Wing right now? You didn't like the idea of lists on day 2, how about day 3? I'm really curious where you stand on pretty much everyone atm.

At this point, I have to lean Nar scum.

 

[[AC] Doomsday998]

Ok, let's see what I can make of this...I left some points out because they were either repeated or I had addressed them to some extent already. If I missed something that anyone thinks is worth commenting on then point it out...

I vote to burn Nemesis at the stake.

Based on my reading, Nem has been the most inconsistent player. Inconsistency like that along with active posting draws my suspicion. Nightfall is getting close so in the interest of time, I'll just note the most pertinent post numbers instead of dredging through the thread to find the quotes to pull.

First Nem voted Fire for no reason. Random. Nem responded to Doom what's wrong with a random vote? Doom replied joke votes give some kind of reason. Nem asked Doom if a joke vote is more innocent than a random vote then did not answer Doom's question asking what Nem thinks of Tree's vote on Wiz and subsequent votes on Tree by asking Doom to say what they thought of them. Nem said back then the scummiest thing so far was Wiz wanting some action but that it wasn't vote-worthy.

Rickets first points to the interaction I had with Nem. I initially called them out for posting a purely random vote, at least according to them. Not answering my question in the first place also stood out to me. Had I been around closer I may have actually acted on this and voted Nem.

After being questioned by Doom again, they replied they didn't think there was anything to read into the votes so far. Retracted vote on Fire but oddly didn't even remember who they voted for. Nem changed their vote to Driver but didn't say why.

I'm not sure I buy into the forgetting who they first voted for theory. And to be fair, when Nem voted for Driver they again mentioned the 3rd vote on Tree thing (which I think is explained more below).

Nem came out after nightfall to lean Tree as innocent and proposed a scenario linking Tree with themself and Star as scum. Now, why would an innocent or an evil go this far casting themself in a scum scenario - to exhonerate Tree? Was all that really necessary? This made no sense to me. Then further speculated there are only 3 scum. Out of 20 players, three scum amounts to a MUCH lower average percentage instead of the usual 25% ratio. Nem was also leaning wingnut and cnote innocent.

It looked like Nem was trying to cover all the angles. I didn't really agree with Nem's conclusions...1) because it implicated me and 2) I thought their "scum tells" were to overly simplistic. Nonetheless it was something that sparked some discussion.

Nem's response to HI IQ is interesting.......... mainly because Mael already pointed out Nem never actually said that third vote on Tree was the "scumiest" thing so far. Nem's actual posts said Wiz's D1 behavior was "scumiest" thing so far... then Nem got that mixed up, was called out on it by Mael.... and Mael was since killed by scum.

Now that Mael no longer lives, they are unable to remind us again that Nem saying the third vote on Tree was the "scummiest" thing is really a contradiction of Nem's earlier posts.

This is the first line from Nem's Post # 184:

"I don't know that that's completely fair at all. In a previous post I said that I believed the scummiest thing done so far was that third vote - could it be in any doubt who had put the vote down (Driver) ?

Nem is that the real reason Mael was killed?

I'm not sure this is the best representation of what happened. Nem did later say (and before the vote I believe) that "aside" from Wiz that the scummiest thing was Driver's vote and also that Wiz's posts could have been looked at as protown. I could see where the decision was made. At the time it did read as if Nem could be contradicting themselves.

Why come back to this point yet again after already doing that already before? Nem tells us it's either because Mael was a good player or to try making other townies look scummy. Totally forgives Gun and my votes on Mael... weird. Only comments "in passing" that Mael may have been hit because Mael was voting Nem. Notice Nem failed to mention Mael was the one who alerted the rest of us to the contradictions that exist in Nem's own posts.... and that was the basis for Mael's vote. Maybe Mael was on to something in regards to Nem and that's why Nem and company chose Mael for their hit. Now that we know Mael was innocent, Nem would rather us believe Mael died just because they seemed to be a good player or just to make someone else look bad.

I realize that I chopped out some of the context at the beginning but it's basically all still there. I don't necessarily think it is wise to bring up votes as to why people got hit. It's too much guess work. About all you can say at this point is that the scum took out the most active player from D1. To be fair, I believe I stated this opinion to Nem as well.

The last point I find most inconsistent and most troubling is how Nem was able to lean me innocent just for placing a random vote on someone (Mael) and then leaving the game completely for so long.

How exactly does not playing at all, then not placing a real vote anywhere, not contributing anything to the game thread at all, ...AND... not coming back possibly absolve me from suspicion in Nem's convoluted little mind? Anyone with any common sense at all in these mafia games should consider me at least a little suspicious. Also interesting to note Nem only "leans" themself as innocent. LOL.

I double checked why Nem leaned you innocent and I don't think it had anything to do with your gameplay surrounding your vote but I think because it was your vote wasn't inconsequential, in that it meant it put Mael closer to the chopping block with two votes. In theory it is a possible scum tell that scum want to place meaningless votes, although not a very water tight scum tell when D1 votes are all over the board.

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Now, I see myself stuck in a position that I either have to agree with Rickets on Nem being scum or say that Rickets' vote on Nem was garbage and scummy. I'll admittedly take the middle of the road, "wishy washy" approach instead.

Rickets makes some ok points about Nem. IF there is a case on them I'd lean more towards their posts from D1 involving whether Wiz or Driver had scummier posts (The random vote talk seems moot at this point). That could certainly factor in to the late voting on Wiz D2 and the statistics just being a nice opportunity for them to move. I'm not sure I'd go as far as to call out Nem for their post that breaks down players based on the self-defined scum tells. The motivation for the post was well placed, and it garnered some discussion, but I didn't agree with it either. Nem's current play seems fairly protown as they are questioning players.

I don't think I would then turn around and say that Ricket's vote on Nem was a scummy vote. It was more well thought out than the other late votes, although I could also see it being one of those distracting votes I mentioned. Rickets didn't get much into the Wiz discussion, although did voice a thorough opinion on his gameplay. That's more than the others that I think fir into that category had done. I've said this multiple times but this vote was more well thought out, as well.

At this point I am still not willing to lean them either way. So this may ultimately have been a huge waste of time...I'm joking, of course.

 

[[AC] narwhal]

I've looked through Narwhal's posts. There are a couple things that jump out. First is the length of the posts. Most of them are one or two lines. I said before that this always makes me raise an eyebrow. It seems to me that this is a good way to guard against saying "too much". Another thing that strikes me is the backhanded way Nar has been agreeing with me and tree. Tree is obnoxious, I only made one post that worked, and the rest was bunk. Reminds me of times when I've been scum and had to vote a certain way but didn't want to.

Nar, how are you feeling about Wing right now? You didn't like the idea of lists on day 2, how about day 3? I'm really curious where you stand on pretty much everyone atm.

At this point, I have to lean Nar scum.

Tree was obnoxious.

I generally always do posts in one or two lines.

I am working right now so you will have to wait a little longer for some input about others from me. Keep up the good work though.

 

[FireDancer7905]

Ok. I've reread quite a bit. I'm rolling with hammer until s/he gives me reason not to.

I vote to burn Wing at the stake.

I'd like to see more thoughts on Narwhal, as i really think that something doesn't add up. Also, chup. I quoted a post earlier that i now am sure was distancing from Wizard. I'd like to see either get the next bbq, after Wing.

Lg, will the spell cause your counts to show double, or does it not show up until night?

 

[[AC] Hammerhead 991]

Tree was obnoxious.

I generally always do posts in one or two lines.

I am working right now so you will have to wait a little longer for some input about others from me. Keep up the good work though.

And wait I will. Eagerly in fact.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll do my best not to let you down...

 

[[AC] Hammerhead 991]

Ok. I've reread quite a bit. I'm rolling with hammer until s/he gives me reason not to.

I vote to burn Wing at the stake.

I'd like to see more thoughts on Narwhal, as i really think that something doesn't add up. Also, chup. I quoted a post earlier that i now am sure was distancing from Wizard. I'd like to see either get the next bbq, after Wing.

Lg, will the spell cause your counts to show double, or does it not show up until night?

Fire, what is it about Nar that doesn't add up to you?

 

[Lady G]

Ok. I've reread quite a bit. I'm rolling with hammer until s/he gives me reason not to.

I vote to burn Wing at the stake.

I'd like to see more thoughts on Narwhal, as i really think that something doesn't add up. Also, chup. I quoted a post earlier that i now am sure was distancing from Wizard. I'd like to see either get the next bbq, after Wing.

Lg, will the spell cause your counts to show double, or does it not show up until night?

It will show at night, for final vote count.

 

[[AC] wing nut]

This is probably a waste of time as this game has been follow HH until the lynch shows he is wrong. Luckily we probably still have enough numbers to where it won't hurt us when I'm lynched.

I don't usually pull posts but I will try to condense down to the parts speaking of me.

Wing, on the other hand, is at the top of my scum list. Early on he defended Wiz and he hasn't done much digging. His scum list was fluffy like a bunny rabbit. I'm also getting a scummy feel from Bad Haggis. Others who I am concerned with are Narwhal, Chup, and C-note.

I don't understand why you felt the need to be more specific. I didn't see anyone ask you to be more specific. Did someone point out in your scum den that you may want to clarify your reason for voting Wiz?

I find it funny that my suspect list is bunny fluff but contains the same suspects as you. I'm pretty sure I put out my list before you or most others did when players started asking for them. My list is pretty close to everyones list and since it came earlier I can't be copying. Just because I'm not a post puller doesn't mean I don't dig. I bring to light the posts as they come out.

OK... I finally got home and decided to spend some time really looking at Wingnut's posts. I pulled what I found interesting.


Here's what I see as being the first defense of Wiz. The timing of it, along with the later defense of it makes it really suspect to me.


If that wasn't defense of Wiz, this post sure is.

Here, Wingnut seems to try to implicate Cnote. This will turn out to be a theme in these posts. On top of implicating Cnote, Wing refers to Wiz as being innocent twice. More defense IMO.


Again, Cnote shows up as scum in Wing's post. He also throws in the "but maybe not" clause just to cover his bases.



So, what would be your thoughts on Doom now? I don't remember seeing where you clarified your position...

Cnote points out Wing's oddly timed rewording of his vote. It makes more sense that someone in the Scumden pointed out the mistake than he noticed it that much later. Added to which, even if he was telling the truth and noticed it himself, paying that much attention to the wording of your own previous posts is a mark of someone who's choosing their words carefully.


This is the point that I believe the scum gave up on saving Wiz. Again, throwing out the possiblity that Wiz is innocent.

Again, clarifying. Someone pointed out earlier that the clarification was never called for. Why did you feel you needed to clarify your position?



In my mind, the back and forth between Cnote and Wing is too far to be distancing. Assuming that Wing is a witch, this clears Cnote in my mind. If you look at Wing's posts, there's a couple of scum tells in there for me. The first is the relative shortness of the posts, and most of the statements themselves. One of the big nonos that I've learned about playing scum is talking too much. Wing has talked enough to be active, but not so much as to be likely to make a huge mistake. Another would be the "scum list" that really was more a synopsis of each person's game than any kind of description about his feelings toward the player.

To me, a couple of things are pretty obvious looking at Wing's posts: he's a good player and has played a good game. And, Wing is scum.

I vote to burn Wing at the stake. There's gut involved here too, but in my mind there's also a quite a lot of evidence.


Wing needs to go next.

It was Day 1, Wiz is a good player. There wasn't enough evidence that day to agree that Wiz was scum. My vote wasn't protection, just happened to work out it came on the heels of Trees vote.

In that one post where I call Wiz innocent twice, thats a bunch of bull.If you have any real evidence bring it but quit twisting words. It says IF and it was based on a scenario.

I explained why I fixed it, I see no reason to rehash the same crap over.

Why did I clarify? Well if I didn't I'd be called on it,so in the interest of being more readable I clarified my thought.


Yes I'd rather have voted Cnote then Wiz but we needed to know his role.


As for Doom, he didn't make my list did he? So obviously I think he is pro town.

Wing states that they agree that Wiz's defense case is weak. They also mention HH's gut feel...both are mentioned below in their suspect list as well. You can also see that they mention Cnote as a top suspect but brush them off for Wiz instead. The wording itself is odd: "I'm no more sure of him then Cnote but I feel Cnotes actions are scummier where Wiz is more due to different play style and hiding."

They flat out state Cnote is acting scummier but their vote is on Wiz in order to learn more...I definitely could view this reasoning as contrived. It seems that Wing may be looking for a reason to vote Wiz, but not by choice.

Yes as I said above I'd rather have voted Cnote but thought it was more important to know Wiz role and if HH and Tree could be trusted.

Speaking of going... where did Wing go? Seems kind of odd to me that he hasn't even showed up to respond to nightfall.

I didn't respond to the first night fall either. I get up way to early to wait around for night fall as sometimes they last an hour. I never get to make any posts till after 4 if I'm lucky or later as I don't have a schedule.I work till service calls are done.

 

[[AC] wing nut]

I vote to burn Chupa at the stake.


His suspect list doesn't remotely fit anyone elses, if my post was defending Wiz then his was professing love for Wiz. Hey Chupa did Wiz pay you up front for your attorney fee? I can't say I agre much at all with any of his posts.

 

[[AC] Hammerhead 991]

I think I'm probably more in danger of being lynched then hit at this point of the game but since others are looking for suspect lists I will throw one out too

no particular order

Wiz- I'm still not 100% sure. Lack of posting is suspicious,I'm going more on HHs gut feeling and Wizs poor case on Tree.

Cnote- This is who I planned on voting last night if I decided to post a vote but wanted to see more of todays posts. He has tried to pull posts and twist them to make others look bad. He pulled my vote correction but didn't pay attention to the timestamp of the post and vote tally. He also pulled a post of Nemesis stating that he never mentioned the 3rd vote being scummy when he infact did twice. He has laid low except to put out doubt about others posts.

Narwal- I think he is nothing more then a latcher. I haven't seen any digging on other suspects and a failure to really get into the middle of anything. They do like to explain other peoples posts for them.

Chupacabra- more of a gut feeling at this point, can't put my finger on it but the posts don't sit well with me as of now.

All my other suspects are low posters- more then anything its lack of posts that makes me suspect them. If you aren't letting us read your thoughts then you are hiding and hoping to be overlooked. No reason for that except you are scum and afraid to slip up.

UhOh- 2 posts, a vote for me because of my avatar. Then a post to say how hard it is to keep up with the aliases, no digging at all

Gun- a few joke posts,vote on Maelstrom and no digging at all

Rickets- I see just posted so we'll see if they contribute or disappear again.

Bad Haggis- a few posts,seemingly looking helpful but no digging

Here's the list in question. You've got almost half the pack on it. No wonder it looks like what other people have. On that note, I think it's interesting that you use the fact that it looks like other people's lists as a defense. Then you vote Chupa partially because their list looks different. It just doesn't make sense to me. Do you have an updated list since Wiz was confirmed HP, or does it look just the same as this one?

You seem a bit sour grapish that the town actually trusted me and lynched Wiz. Why would that be? If you were so hot to vote Cnote, why didn't you? Why is your vote currently on Chupa for that matter? You are free to vote whoever you want at any time. You give the town grief about "following HH", but a) it seems to me that that was in the town's best interest, and b) you voted Wiz even though you didn't want to. Seems to me you are the one following. If the town hadn't decided to trust me and my rumbly tumbly, Wiz would still be out there, and you and your cronies wouldn't have a 50% chance of botching the hit tonight.

So Wing... If you had to list 3 people right now that are most likely witches, who would they be and why?