Mafia #51 - Mafia Citizens - The Play
- Thread starter johnlarson66
- Start date
I am becoming more convinced that you are right (divorcing myself entirely from your proven ability to manipulate etc and applying myself just to this post here )
What do you say about bishop and plantling Mad ?
OK I am back to work for a bit after this but the vote count for what it is worth is three on kashta (plant, TRS and Mad) and 1 on TRS (ZS).
I call out the following people for being too quiet to be helpful to date, or for posting nothing worth squat :-
- CJT
- DD
- Maverick
- Rbishop, still.
And what happened to jpappy ?
I have no problem sticking a vote on anyone of ya at this stage of the day if that what it takes to get some reaction and thoughts.
I call out the following people for being too quiet to be helpful to date, or for posting nothing worth squat :-
- CJT
- DD
- Maverick
- Rbishop, still.
And what happened to jpappy ?
I have no problem sticking a vote on anyone of ya at this stage of the day if that what it takes to get some reaction and thoughts.
Dangerdoll
Global Moderator
what are you calling me out for? I have yet to hear any thoughts from TRS in regards to my questions for him for the post quoted below... as much as plant hasn't really responded to anyone's inquiries on her either... did she throw a claim and vote out just so she could keep low and out of the game yet to avoid UDing?
So, you go through these lengths to try and pinpoint people which would make it appear as if you are helping the town, trying to kick in bushes, that sort of thing but you also do the town a disjustice by not answering any of the confusion you are spitting out in the name of "reasons for voting". So, how will you word your next post?
Holy crap, Madcrawdad, give it a rest. You're working real hard to build a case against me to the exclusion of anyone else. Is that supposed to be pro-town? Not only that but you're harping over the same points you tried so hard to push yesterday that you're repeating yourself with all this "stuff" today. Several other people have already considered the arguments you've raised already and weren't convinced by them at the time. Rehashing all of this one more time doesn't make it true just because you want people to believe it is.
It "appears" that I received a PM because (1) jpappy made that suggestion when he was speculating about my comment to Red Severum back on Page 1. I was fishing around for an explanation for what was going through Red's mind that he would feel compelled to lynch someone already with his first post at the very start of the game. At the time, he disguised that as a joke (possibly) and I'd laughed it off. To be honest, I'm still somewhat bewildered by Red every single time he posts something in these games because at least half the time I can't figure out what his reasons are. Then when he explains them, it sounds even more confusing (to me). (2) Ever since then, this notion that Kashta must have a power role has been raised by others again and again. And it's that repetition and your persistence in pushing this on everyone that has blown this way out of proportion. Do they focus on my answer to that question? No.. certain people skip right over the fact that it's been asked and answered already. And you keep redirecting their focus right back.
Why did I post early? Because I saw the new thread was finally created and I thought the game was on.
TRS is the most inconsistent player I have seen (which amounts to this game and the last) and his arbitrary votes, his flippant responses, and botched vote retractions (which may be deliberate at this point since he kept doing that in the last game too) just annoys the crap out of me. Yes I have suggested that he might be scummy because people who do things for no reason are often hiding something. But it's not like I'm the only person who speculates about players having a hidden motive. According to JL's instructions, most of the town is mafia.
Mad, if someone casts suspicion on me (or someone else) from the beginning who didn't even wait long enough for me to do something or say something that gives them a plausible reason, of course I'm going to point that out and wonder why. Red threw a stupid vote at me and I laughed. I didn't retaliate by voting back against him. And I'm not the only one here who has decided that his playing style is careless, erratic, and possibly suspicious.
The type of interaction I saw in the last game (particularly between Noodles and Blueiz from the beginning of Day #1) was totally confontrational and aggressive. That was a very black and white 50/50 format where the players were either totally innocent or pure scum. So that's what expected would be the case here too. But in this game (with completely different dynamics and overly complicated rules/variables) the bantering and provoking that went on last time isn't here at all. This has been the full extent of my mafia game experience and I can only learn these differences as I encounter them for the first time.
See what I mean? Red's statement didn't jive with the timeline at all. And neither does jpappy's "guessing" that I posted early after receiving a PM from JL.
This game thread hit the forum at 7:44 pm (Pacific time). I saw it right away and thought, oh good.. there it is! I clicked on the thread and saw the long post of instructions followed by another post (which posted at 7:46 pm) that listed all the players. I scanned that player list to see if we ended up with another alias player and didn't see one. Then I hit the reply button to post my silly "woo hoo" message right away (which posted 3 minutes behind the player list at 7:49 pm). I didn't get a PM or anything else and I had no reason to expect I would because the game had already started.
It was several minutes after this that I tried to skim through the instructions to see what JL had revised (based on those discussions we saw in the signup thread). That's when I found JL's statement at the bottom of Post #1 that said he hadn't even sent out the PMs yet.
"Sending PMs, please wait until I say game on."
It took JL two minutes to post the player list after creating the first post. And it wasn't until 8:07 pm that he finally posted "game on." Based on these post times, JL sent out those PMs between 7:46 and 8:07 pm which means it took him 23 minutes.
I was expecting yesterday to be back on by around 10 am.. but my day didn't go as I had planned. It was late afternoon already by the time I got here. I had already answered the questions posed about my early post and I'd even looked up and explained the timeline of all that late the night before.... I thought those suspicions lodged against me would have blown over already and I started reading from where I'd left off 10 pages or so ahead of the current time. The more I read, the more unbelievable that "let's all agree to lynch Kashta" train had become. You guys had spent the whole day going over the same thing about me all day long. By Noon my time yesterday you practically had me strung up, dead, and buried already. And the further I read, the more votes I found had been cast against me. How was I supposed to get through all that to address those issues again fast enough for people to see that I'm not in the scum/mucs role you and TRS had so firmly placed me in? I didn't know who I was going to vote against either. I didn't know if Red was scummy enough to vote for from what little we had to go on the night before or I would've voted for him before I left. While I gave him a hard time and raised some suspicions against him... that wasn't the same thing. I was going to wait and see what else would develop the next day. You were relentless in your drive to lynch me all along and you were right there to jump on anyone else who disagreed with you about me. As I got through a fast scan of the thread, I saw more posts and more votes coming through. I went back again to check out Zigman along with several others. I realized I was in a position to change the outcome of the vote standing and I tried to find other clues, other suspects, and other connections between players to decide if he was a good choice to vote for. That seemed to be the case, so that's what I did... as I've said.
I don't see what that has to do with this, Mad. Just because I started out one way in that game doesn't mean it's the exact same thing when starting again in a different one. That last game you refer to was the very first time I ever played a mafia game at all. I was assigned to the mafia team and I didn't know yet what people actually did or how they communicated. I also didn't know what to post or very much about how the game actually worked. I also made a ton of mistakes in my first day of the game and it took me a long while to get into the flow of it all.
When the game started this time, I knew I didn't have to worry about hiding a mafia connection this time because I didn't get that role. I posted my first message and sat back waiting to see what everyone else was going to do. The fact that I was on the scum team last time doesn't make any difference in this game because it's a completely different situation. You've tried to say based on a different game with different rules/formats and lacking power roles that you know exactly what I would or wouldn't have done now as compared to then. And you call me a liar saying I'm being untruthful because that's what you want people to believe.
This statement that I've made is true.
"If I'd received a PM and was collaborating and communicating with other players I would have gone off to collaborate and communicate, not post in the thread."
Now that I do know how communicating players collaborate in this game AND I've seen that most players take their time to post anything at all at the beginning of the first day... had I got a power role assignment this time I would have held off and made contact with my teammates before posting or paying much attention to the meaningless introductory posts that are made. This time it's a different game and I already know how slowly these things get going on the first day. Had I got a PM, I might still have made that same "woo hoo" nonsense post within the first 3 minutes... but then I would have shifted my focus right away on whatever it was I needed to do based on the role I got. I didn't get a PM before the start or afterward. So I sat here and followed this thread to see Red's first post voting to lynch me... to reply in a lighthearted way to brush that off... and without needing to contact anyone or figure out some new power role dynamic for this one.
That's not an untruth at all, Mad. Red made that first post and I laughed. My initial response at that time was lighthearted. It was no big deal at the time and I certainly didn't retaliate or label him as scummy because of it. Then he replied back to say yea, I knew he's just kidding around.
Had this issue stayed as it was then, I would have blown it off and gone on to other things. The rest came later after you jumped on that exchange between me and Red to make something more of it than it was at the time. Red himself has since done his own revision after the fact.
First Red voted to lynch me and said he was cracking a joke and he brought up the last game in the process. Then he said he wants to "unvote" me and vote for Coler. That's something else Red did in the last game too... he voted for someone early then retracted his vote wrong so that it wouldn't count. When someone else called him on that, he merely shrugged it off and left it unchanged. This really is odd behavior because he's done this again now in this game. And he clearly know already (from previous experience) that a switched vote doesn't count if it's not phrased exactly the way it says in the instructions.
Then a day later Red changed his tune about this from the previous night. Red later claimed his early vote on me wasn't a joke after all as he had claimed it was before. The "revised" reason he gave then was saying he did it deliberately to "get people to open their eyes to my scummy playing." So which version of Red's explanation are we to believe? And what was so "scummy" about me posting a meaningless "woo hoo" message prematurely?
Red has clearly contradicted himself. It can't have been "just a joke" at the time if it was actually an intentional stunt to "open everyone's eyes."
By midnight there, you mean nightfall.
There's no backtracking necessary. I placed my vote as I did to remove the noose that you (and Red) had so firmly placed around my neck. There was no reason to deny it and I came out and I told people so. I didn't have time to get into the discussion points for and against all my other options typed out at the same time. But I'd decided based on skimming through the day's events a few times in the time I had left before nightfall that Zigman looked like the most likely player for me to take out of the game without harming the count total of mafia/wiseguy/citizen versus the rebel team.
1. Knowing I'm innocent I knew the worst I could do was trade one loss (me) for another loss (Zigman) if it turned out I was wrong and we were both innocent citizens for the town. So my vote change would have been a wash.
2. Had Zigman turned out to be a rebel (which I and a few others had thought likely)... then my last-minute vote to lynch him would made a better difference in the total count against the rebels.
I thought it through and did the best I could.
(As it's taken me forever to get through this barrage from Mad, I'll get caught up again and get back to looking at other issues.)
It "appears" that I received a PM because (1) jpappy made that suggestion when he was speculating about my comment to Red Severum back on Page 1. I was fishing around for an explanation for what was going through Red's mind that he would feel compelled to lynch someone already with his first post at the very start of the game. At the time, he disguised that as a joke (possibly) and I'd laughed it off. To be honest, I'm still somewhat bewildered by Red every single time he posts something in these games because at least half the time I can't figure out what his reasons are. Then when he explains them, it sounds even more confusing (to me). (2) Ever since then, this notion that Kashta must have a power role has been raised by others again and again. And it's that repetition and your persistence in pushing this on everyone that has blown this way out of proportion. Do they focus on my answer to that question? No.. certain people skip right over the fact that it's been asked and answered already. And you keep redirecting their focus right back.
Why did I post early? Because I saw the new thread was finally created and I thought the game was on.
TRS is the most inconsistent player I have seen (which amounts to this game and the last) and his arbitrary votes, his flippant responses, and botched vote retractions (which may be deliberate at this point since he kept doing that in the last game too) just annoys the crap out of me. Yes I have suggested that he might be scummy because people who do things for no reason are often hiding something. But it's not like I'm the only person who speculates about players having a hidden motive. According to JL's instructions, most of the town is mafia.
Mad, if someone casts suspicion on me (or someone else) from the beginning who didn't even wait long enough for me to do something or say something that gives them a plausible reason, of course I'm going to point that out and wonder why. Red threw a stupid vote at me and I laughed. I didn't retaliate by voting back against him. And I'm not the only one here who has decided that his playing style is careless, erratic, and possibly suspicious.
The type of interaction I saw in the last game (particularly between Noodles and Blueiz from the beginning of Day #1) was totally confontrational and aggressive. That was a very black and white 50/50 format where the players were either totally innocent or pure scum. So that's what expected would be the case here too. But in this game (with completely different dynamics and overly complicated rules/variables) the bantering and provoking that went on last time isn't here at all. This has been the full extent of my mafia game experience and I can only learn these differences as I encounter them for the first time.
See what I mean? Red's statement didn't jive with the timeline at all. And neither does jpappy's "guessing" that I posted early after receiving a PM from JL.
This game thread hit the forum at 7:44 pm (Pacific time). I saw it right away and thought, oh good.. there it is! I clicked on the thread and saw the long post of instructions followed by another post (which posted at 7:46 pm) that listed all the players. I scanned that player list to see if we ended up with another alias player and didn't see one. Then I hit the reply button to post my silly "woo hoo" message right away (which posted 3 minutes behind the player list at 7:49 pm). I didn't get a PM or anything else and I had no reason to expect I would because the game had already started.
It was several minutes after this that I tried to skim through the instructions to see what JL had revised (based on those discussions we saw in the signup thread). That's when I found JL's statement at the bottom of Post #1 that said he hadn't even sent out the PMs yet.
"Sending PMs, please wait until I say game on."
It took JL two minutes to post the player list after creating the first post. And it wasn't until 8:07 pm that he finally posted "game on." Based on these post times, JL sent out those PMs between 7:46 and 8:07 pm which means it took him 23 minutes.
I was expecting yesterday to be back on by around 10 am.. but my day didn't go as I had planned. It was late afternoon already by the time I got here. I had already answered the questions posed about my early post and I'd even looked up and explained the timeline of all that late the night before.... I thought those suspicions lodged against me would have blown over already and I started reading from where I'd left off 10 pages or so ahead of the current time. The more I read, the more unbelievable that "let's all agree to lynch Kashta" train had become. You guys had spent the whole day going over the same thing about me all day long. By Noon my time yesterday you practically had me strung up, dead, and buried already. And the further I read, the more votes I found had been cast against me. How was I supposed to get through all that to address those issues again fast enough for people to see that I'm not in the scum/mucs role you and TRS had so firmly placed me in? I didn't know who I was going to vote against either. I didn't know if Red was scummy enough to vote for from what little we had to go on the night before or I would've voted for him before I left. While I gave him a hard time and raised some suspicions against him... that wasn't the same thing. I was going to wait and see what else would develop the next day. You were relentless in your drive to lynch me all along and you were right there to jump on anyone else who disagreed with you about me. As I got through a fast scan of the thread, I saw more posts and more votes coming through. I went back again to check out Zigman along with several others. I realized I was in a position to change the outcome of the vote standing and I tried to find other clues, other suspects, and other connections between players to decide if he was a good choice to vote for. That seemed to be the case, so that's what I did... as I've said.
I don't see what that has to do with this, Mad. Just because I started out one way in that game doesn't mean it's the exact same thing when starting again in a different one. That last game you refer to was the very first time I ever played a mafia game at all. I was assigned to the mafia team and I didn't know yet what people actually did or how they communicated. I also didn't know what to post or very much about how the game actually worked. I also made a ton of mistakes in my first day of the game and it took me a long while to get into the flow of it all.
When the game started this time, I knew I didn't have to worry about hiding a mafia connection this time because I didn't get that role. I posted my first message and sat back waiting to see what everyone else was going to do. The fact that I was on the scum team last time doesn't make any difference in this game because it's a completely different situation. You've tried to say based on a different game with different rules/formats and lacking power roles that you know exactly what I would or wouldn't have done now as compared to then. And you call me a liar saying I'm being untruthful because that's what you want people to believe.
This statement that I've made is true.
"If I'd received a PM and was collaborating and communicating with other players I would have gone off to collaborate and communicate, not post in the thread."
Now that I do know how communicating players collaborate in this game AND I've seen that most players take their time to post anything at all at the beginning of the first day... had I got a power role assignment this time I would have held off and made contact with my teammates before posting or paying much attention to the meaningless introductory posts that are made. This time it's a different game and I already know how slowly these things get going on the first day. Had I got a PM, I might still have made that same "woo hoo" nonsense post within the first 3 minutes... but then I would have shifted my focus right away on whatever it was I needed to do based on the role I got. I didn't get a PM before the start or afterward. So I sat here and followed this thread to see Red's first post voting to lynch me... to reply in a lighthearted way to brush that off... and without needing to contact anyone or figure out some new power role dynamic for this one.
That's not an untruth at all, Mad. Red made that first post and I laughed. My initial response at that time was lighthearted. It was no big deal at the time and I certainly didn't retaliate or label him as scummy because of it. Then he replied back to say yea, I knew he's just kidding around.
Had this issue stayed as it was then, I would have blown it off and gone on to other things. The rest came later after you jumped on that exchange between me and Red to make something more of it than it was at the time. Red himself has since done his own revision after the fact.
First Red voted to lynch me and said he was cracking a joke and he brought up the last game in the process. Then he said he wants to "unvote" me and vote for Coler. That's something else Red did in the last game too... he voted for someone early then retracted his vote wrong so that it wouldn't count. When someone else called him on that, he merely shrugged it off and left it unchanged. This really is odd behavior because he's done this again now in this game. And he clearly know already (from previous experience) that a switched vote doesn't count if it's not phrased exactly the way it says in the instructions.
Then a day later Red changed his tune about this from the previous night. Red later claimed his early vote on me wasn't a joke after all as he had claimed it was before. The "revised" reason he gave then was saying he did it deliberately to "get people to open their eyes to my scummy playing." So which version of Red's explanation are we to believe? And what was so "scummy" about me posting a meaningless "woo hoo" message prematurely?
Red has clearly contradicted himself. It can't have been "just a joke" at the time if it was actually an intentional stunt to "open everyone's eyes."
By midnight there, you mean nightfall.
There's no backtracking necessary. I placed my vote as I did to remove the noose that you (and Red) had so firmly placed around my neck. There was no reason to deny it and I came out and I told people so. I didn't have time to get into the discussion points for and against all my other options typed out at the same time. But I'd decided based on skimming through the day's events a few times in the time I had left before nightfall that Zigman looked like the most likely player for me to take out of the game without harming the count total of mafia/wiseguy/citizen versus the rebel team.
1. Knowing I'm innocent I knew the worst I could do was trade one loss (me) for another loss (Zigman) if it turned out I was wrong and we were both innocent citizens for the town. So my vote change would have been a wash.
2. Had Zigman turned out to be a rebel (which I and a few others had thought likely)... then my last-minute vote to lynch him would made a better difference in the total count against the rebels.
I thought it through and did the best I could.
(As it's taken me forever to get through this barrage from Mad, I'll get caught up again and get back to looking at other issues.)
Yep the quiet ones can hide until all the outspoken people drop, but then its sink or swim. I'm glad we've had no UDs but come on people say something even if its stupid.
Seriously, there are two types of Mafia player: those that are very outspoken regardless of role, and those that are very quiet for fear of being killed.
Seriously, there are two types of Mafia player: those that are very outspoken regardless of role, and those that are very quiet for fear of being killed.
You were on Ice yesterday for being on Kashta... he ended up being on the town's side. Not saying that Ice being town, guarantees that his vote was correct, but doesn't it cause you to adjust your thinking at all? Yesterday you said that Ice was on an evil team. Now that he's dead, it must have just been everyone else on that team plus innocent old Ice?
Definitely of interest, but a few things I'm considering:
Plantling's vote for her second candidate (saying that there were enough votes on Kashta) was a bad move, plain and simple. The thing is, I've seen others do the same thing, as town. I don't understand why, but they do it... Last game, Noodles (Communicating Innocent) did the same thing and I (as scum) was able to exploit it a little bit to help make her look scummy. So, I would need to see additional bad behavior from Plantling before voting her. Her last-minute, albeit late, vote change to Kashta was slightly redeeming.
RB, as I mentioned in a post earlier, chooses to intentionally be a distraction in some games. He'll deliberately throw scum-tells and post nonsense for no apparent reason. I only recall him ever doing this as town, though ... Note that I'm NOT saying that I think he's town, but his goofy actions don't guarantee that he's scum. I would need to see more from him, as well. Obviously, if the nonsense continues beyond Day 1 (as it has in some games) he makes himself an easy lynch target regardless of affiliation.
Wow you're a regualer hero of the people. Time for some quotes
LOL, you know its only for fun.
And I don't like your avatar, is that better
This is after Kash has made about 2 post...Yes, TRS is so good it only takes him 2 post to figure out a pattern different from last game.
This is the screwed up vote i was talking about, i never said you changed last minute.
After noticing ppl going after Kash about posting so early, TRS attempts to cover his own a$$
TRS how is this trying to get ppl to vote for Kash? you kept your vote on her because the previous vote for coler didn't count
At this point there were already 3 serious votes on Kash, and you just stayed for the convience.
The reason i think you and kash are on a team because you thought she was going to be lynched and when it's revealed that she was rebel scum you would come out looking clean cause you had to first vote on her.
TRS promoting his greatness at being the first at voteing for Kash. Just another attempt at trying to look clean in case kash is lynched.
Please explain TRS.....
alright everyone wants the quiets to speak up don't realy have anything new to add just letting you all know im alive and watching the tread at least
**out of game** found out my dog has an aggressive cancer and may not make it till i get home so im only halfharted in the game today **back in game**
**out of game** found out my dog has an aggressive cancer and may not make it till i get home so im only halfharted in the game today **back in game**
