Mafia 54:Vampires Return (The Play)

[ZSandmann]

Paper... huh?

So are you one of John's teammates? I can understand being new and not wanting to vote your teammate, but at this point, do you think you'll change other's minds?



OK, annie only pops in occasionally, so I can see why she hasn't voted. What's Coler waiting for? Is there something we need to know Coler?

There is one possibility that makes me think this all may be OK. Ice said he delivered a list last night. What if Wycco isn't the seer, but the recipient of the list? That's why he wanted to come out... it wouldn't hurt us if he died getting the info to us.

That's really the only thing that makes sense to me at this point. If Wycco really was the seer, then he knew his investigation list was going out (or was already out). The reason that the seer hasn't come out is that he knows that Wyccos representation of the list is accurate so he feels safe.

The biggest potential problem I see is if Wycco is the seer and his report is accurate, then the vamps know it too. If they get a turn, then we're almost going to have to start taking out the innocents on his list because those are the most likely vamp choices.

Yeah the biggest saving grace is that as long as the Priest isn't turned they could protect anyone on the list Wycco has given or himself so the Vamps have to play a bit of WIFOM on who th Priest will protect.

 

[johnlarson66]

There is really three options -

a) I am innocent and this is a big frame job at the risk of wycco. I am sure kash will say "I trusted wycco".

b) I am a vampire as wycco claims and if I was investigated day one as a vampire then I am not the LV.

c) I am a vampire as wycco claims and jpap transferred the LV role to me and I helped lynch him. Then the game will be over.

If someone knows another option, then I would like to see it.

How in the world does kash even know what wycco is? How come she has champoined his cause? Why hasn't wycco explained why he came out. Kash and wycco are teamates and are communicating outside of the thread.

I have my vote on Kash. I am hoping that the priest will see through the lies and protect me. With kash being second on the votes, she will be killed instead. I am fairly sure she is the LV.

The town will want to go after wycco, but he is not the LV.

Correction: Could also prove that Wycco is lying but Kashta got fooled.

The whole trying to get me to quit and using a past private forum is just sad and an act of a desperate person.

You are already trying to get your story straight for tomorrow.

 

[Zaffy]

...

First bit in bold - unlikely. There are max three. I can buy that jpappy was left hanging because maybe he was going to be unable to play and stuff (curious that they neither tried to save him nor sent him to the gallows if so though. Perhaps it was just lousy vampire play that left him in a tie ultimately)

...

This occurred to me as well.

 

[ZSandmann]

Kash stop talking about yourself in the third person you are freaking me out.

Also, I agree with Ogre that the path you suggest is against the spirit of the game. It has been done before too, and I've never liked that people try it. Basically it comes down to prove it with in-game evidence or volunteer to be lynched. Suicides are against the the purpose of the game.

 

[Kashta]

Unfortunately, some of what John has posted up there might be true. This is something I realized this morning.

What if Wycco is the Seer but was the first one turned?

He could still claim his role and pretend to be innocent. But if that were true, he would lie about the investigation results. We don't know who got those results (vampire vs. villager). If a person on the vamp team got that message already, no villager will dispute Wycco's investigation results. If Wycco as Seer were working for the DARK SIDE, he would... jeez.. he could say anything.

1. Wycco would name an innocent as vampire to fool everybody and another innocent as innocent who would speak up exactly the same way I've done.

2. In that scenario.. Wycco is vampire already, John is innocent and falsely accused, and I've been played as a stooge to validate both the false claim and the false accusation.

This is a tactic I would expect from someone like Johnlarson. I was gullible enough to fall for a trick he pulled on me before. And I've already tripped myself up in this game. But since John is the accused vampire, he's not behind this. That would mean someone else on the vampire team has to be devious enough as a strategist to come up with the idea.

 

[OgreMkV]

What is WIFOM?

 

[Kashta]

Kash stop talking about yourself in the third person you are freaking me out.

Sorry.. I did that to remove myself from being directly involved so I could look at things more objectively.

That's a lot easier to do when you're not playing the game at the time. I found that out when watching last game after I was killed off.

 

[Coler]

Paper... huh?

So are you one of John's teammates? I can understand being new and not wanting to vote your teammate, but at this point, do you think you'll change other's minds?



OK, annie only pops in occasionally, so I can see why she hasn't voted. What's Coler waiting for? Is there something we need to know Coler?

There is one possibility that makes me think this all may be OK. Ice said he delivered a list last night. What if Wycco isn't the seer, but the recipient of the list? That's why he wanted to come out... it wouldn't hurt us if he died getting the info to us.

That's really the only thing that makes sense to me at this point. If Wycco really was the seer, then he knew his investigation list was going out (or was already out). The reason that the seer hasn't come out is that he knows that Wyccos representation of the list is accurate so he feels safe.

The biggest potential problem I see is if Wycco is the seer and his report is accurate, then the vamps know it too. If they get a turn, then we're almost going to have to start taking out the innocents on his list because those are the most likely vamp choices.

Re the bit in bold - it really doesn't matter to me that I am late voting for JL (which I am pretty much on board to do - even JL concedes that there are two possibilities which involve him as a vampire and only one as innocent).

The thought that wycco is not perhaps the seer but the person in receipt of the D4 list is an excellent thought.

I did want to see if anyone would mount a serious campaign against wycco. A vampire team playing well should have done this immediately he came out. Equally a true seer/the player in receipt of the D4 list would be expected to try and hammer Wycco if they knew that he had come out with vampire lies.

All that said it is of course interesting to see reactions before one does anything. Yes this may put me in the frame for being lynched tomorrow as being the last person to vote JL - I really almost don't count annie at this stage as even playing but there you go.

I was hoping other people would have been posting by now so we could come up with another strong vampire suspect in the thread.

Sorry, Coler. I wasn't meaning to be coded or veiled. I'd already said what that idea was but is a crummy way to play this if I take it upon myself to do it.

What I decided to do instead was turn it around on JohnLarson to call his bluff.

It's a last resort.

A player can leave the game by choice and Ice has to reveal their role whether he wants to or not. It's a technicality.. using the rules. Not how we're supposed to play, which Ogre pointed out right away.. vehemently. It's the same thing as not voting would lead to a UD... just works faster.

If John is innocent as he wants us to believe, he can take himself out of the game right now and "prove it" without waiting for us to lynch him first at nightfall just to find out. If truly innocent, it's a trade-off costing 1 innocent life.... but it would prove this: That Wycco and Kashta are both lying, that John's not a vampire, and the town would lynch either Wycco or Kashta instead of him. In reality, he's not going to do that because he is a vampire and can't let his role be exposed.

It's the same way for me. Again as a last resort, I can do the same thing to reveal my role (if necessary) to prove Wycco is telling the truth. As a player, I'm not going to do this on my own because it's not fair for me or any one player to decide this unilaterally. But if the town agrees to it by a large enough majority (to overcome the fact that the vampire team needs to prevent it) the town could ask me to do it. If the town needs to know my role badly enough they agree to sacrifice 1 life to verify my role, I would do it. Bottom line is I don't care if I live or die as long as the town wins.

The only way the town can win is to systematically kill people off one person at a time. We're already doing by lynching/staking someone every nightfall. So really, it's just the same thing if it's a majority decision. The benefit would be to expose the roles.. expose the lies.. and lynch another vampire (hopefully) before another villager gets turned.

The bit in bold - yes that was my hope too.

Otherwise, regarding your explanation of suicide to reveal roles, this has something of the ring of truth to it but of course actions speak louder than words. I notice JL hasn't taken you up on it. That would have been interesting.

Primarily for the thought processes set out in my response to Ogre's post, I vote to lynch Johnlarsson.

As we can assume Annie is going to randomly arrive at some point and chuck a vote out there, it would seem a sensible use of time for us to post up as precise as possible suspect lists (I don't mean 'he causes me concers' 'she has peaked (btw people the word is PIQUED !! I've been wanting to say that for about 20 games now) in order to give us some steers in the event of a turn tonight.

 

[johnlarson66]

Unfortunately, some of what John has posted up there might be true. This is something I realized this morning.

What if Wycco is the Seer but was the first one turned?

He could still claim his role and pretend to be innocent. But if that were true, he would lie about the investigation results. We don't know who got those results (vampire vs. villager). If a person on the vamp team got that message already, no villager will dispute Wycco's investigation results. If Wycco as Seer were working for the DARK SIDE, he would... jeez.. he could say anything.

1. Wycco would name an innocent as vampire to fool everybody and another innocent as innocent who would speak up exactly the same way I've done.

2. In that scenario.. Wycco is vampire already, John is innocent and falsely accused, and I've been played as a stooge to validate both the false claim and the false accusation.

This is a tactic I would expect from someone like Johnlarson. I was gullible enough to fall for a trick he pulled on me before. And I've already tripped myself up in this game. But since John is the accused vampire, he's not behind this. That would mean someone else on the vampire team has to be devious enough as a strategist to come up with the idea.

I am guessing wycco read the thread where I suggested it.

I can't believe everyone believes wycco. If he knew from the first day, then why hasn't he voted for me?

I put myself way out there, I even have had votes for me.

Without Kash pushing for this it would have no legs. If Kash is not behind all of this, she sure has been acting like it. Maybe we both are being set up.

 

[ZSandmann]

Well on that line of reasoning Wycco may be a Vamp and JL may be a Vamp. What better way to validate you are Innocent than to lynch a Vamp. Of course JL is a high priority target for them to lose so I don't know why they would try a strategy like that but it is another possible solution.

Regardless, I think we must lynch JL tonight, and if I was in JL's spot I wouldn't like it either, Vamp or Villager. But JL come on, you know it needs to be done. If you really are Innocent then we get Wycco tomorrow, who is most likely a Turn. Either way we get a Vamp.