Mafia 58-

[noodles62]

Well, I just read over everything again and I will admit that I am lost! The only things that have stuck out was Wood (of course) and this current exchange between DD and Jpap.
Annie was suspect for a vote and run but then seemed to pick up his pace a litle. Maybe because he was drawing interest? Could be.
Zsand is definitely quiet which seems odd...........

I am certainly not ready to place a vote. more reading is definitely in order. Ugh!

 

[jpappy789]

lumping us together, Pap... is by saying "which one is it"? It was as if there was one person posted 2 thoughts that directly conflicted the other. But here, there were 2 people, with 2 thoughts, why would Dawg be considering that the thoughts were conflicting?

Maybe he wanted to know how we reached "different" conclusions? I don't entirely know seeing as I am not Dawg.

you're opinion is that my view is clouded, however, you are refusing to see it from my position. How interesting.

Possibly because you're insinuating that I'm also mafia w/ Dawg?

You say that as mafia, Dawg would try to lump us together as one person. Obviously, with you "appearing" to be innocent, you would find this interesting and mafia-like. Problem is for me to see your view I have to assume that you are innocent, which is a hard thing for me to do at this point...and not just based on things you have said regarding this specific situation.

 

[Kashta]

I've been over yesterday's events a number of times. To show what I feel stands out the most right now is going to involve pulling a lot of posts. I fully admit this is not concrete stuff yet this early on. But we need to look for subtle connections between players with a similar agenda (mafia vs town) who may or may not be communicating directly.

Here's one example from many where Jpappy starts to establish that Woodward probably had a mafia role instead of a townie role. This continues as well with later posts by Jpap.

RE: the teammate comments

1) Wood is innocent and not really sure what he is doing, no matter how confident he seems.

2) He is mafia and is trying to set up Noods and Rich

3) He is mafia and screwed up.

I am leaning towards either 1 or 2. No way Noods or Rich would allow a teammate to pull such a stunt on day 1. Not their playing style either IMO.

I'm going to go back and dig into some actual posts since last night.

In this post, Dawg agrees with Pappy and decides to vote Wood.

I'm not quite sure what Wood is up to but I tend to agree with JPap that he is following scenario #2.

I retract my vote for Zaffy and vote to lynch Wood

His play is just too bizarre. If he's innocent he screwed the town...if he's evil he's trying to set up Rich and Noods. We need to know what he is IMO.

Jpappy... seemed innocent/pro-town to me while he was speculating about Woodward's role being more likely mafia than townie.

Then here is where Woodward came out with his intent to UD. (Quoted text removed to save some space here.)

i believe its time.

Once Wood came out that he was going to UD on purpose and his mafia-ness and likely lack of contact with any teammates became more plainly evident... Jpappy pulled his vote away immediately. Perhaps because he was less eager at that point to lynch a fellow non-communicating teammate who'd screwed things up, just in case Wood's UD ploy fell through with a last-minute vote.

Wood did you contact Ice? Because I see you still have a vote so unless you retract you are still in the game.

My vote stays on Wood until later tonight. I will be around so it's not going to waste. I just don't want to be duped into switching to voting for someone I am less sure of...

Ok never mind...no vote from Wood.

I retract my vote on Woodward

Keeping his vote on Wood wasn't a bad idea. Nice words.. but that isn't what he did. Instead, Jpappy decided to drop everything on Wood and immediately retracted his vote.

What happened next? Dawg did exactly the same thing for the same reason in the very next post.

I retract my vote for Wood

Should be obvious why.

And what happened next? Zaffy did exactly the same thing for the same reason in the very next post.

Well, I'm at a loss here. I'm heading out and will likely miss nightfall.

I assume that Wood will be killed off as soon as Ice sees his post? if not then he UD's tonight anyway like he says. So a vote on him is a waste.

I retract my vote on Woodward and vote to lynch Gunslinger
I don't have any particular reason for this, and I don't really have time to go back and look right now. Hopefully this will spark gun to post something more.

Later on, Jpappy shifts his focus to different players. And chooses to vote Gunslinger over Annie.

I haven't kept track "officially" but I want to say it's 3-3 between Annie and Gun.

I vote to lynch Gun

I think between Gun and Annie its a tossup. Both came in with a vote and no reasoning but knowing Annie I find it more unlike him given the fact that we don't know who Gun is. Annie has been a little more talkative though...I pretty much just picked one to be honest.

DD, yes I skimmed twice...whoop dee doodle doo. If skimming = mafia, then by all means consider me a top suspect.

In this post, Pappy says he agrees Wood must be mafia, but suggests we delay lynching him for day... with no way of knowing if Wood is BS-ing us or actually intends to quit the game.

I understand what you are getting at Kash. If Wood does show up last minute he is a shoe-in for tomorrow's vote...no questions asked. Hopefully Ice takes his post as him quitting, whether he was PM'ed or not, so we don't have to waste another day on Wood. It's just ridiculous.

Nice little tap dance there, Pappy.

Now in this post, Dawg does the same thing (again) that Jpappy did. More nice words to save face, yet excusing himself for pulling his vote off Woodward.

If Wood comes in last minute to keep himself from UDing I will be here to switch back to him or he will be the first in line for tomorrow no doubt.

It looks like a race between Gun and Annie. I'm actually surprised that neither of them has really commented as of late about their game play. The other one who worries me especially because no one else seems to be talking about them is ZSand who seems to be guilty of similar play style to Gun and Annie this time around. For now...

I vote to lynch ZSand

Annie (who is already highly suspected for being scum) retracts another Woody vote from the board to vote up another player.

Hit and run posts??? Scumbags. Anyone voting for me because of hit and run posts is scummy as hell. Especially you Noods.

MC why did you build a case for me, then vote for Woody??

Woodward, what can I really say to you? You're a rotten scumbag, but only in RL, I doubt now you're really a scumbag in game. I hope your UD is tremendously embarrassing.

I retract my vote for numbnuts..*cough*..Woodward, and vote to lynch MC.

Each of these people (Jpappy, Dawg, Zaffy, and Annie) managed to put a nice spin on their posts. But in each case, the action they took was to back off on Woodward.

This game, it isn't just that half the players we have are mafia.... it's also true that half the votes placed against anyone are cast by (mafia) people who want to avoid voting the most obvious scum players. I think it was clear yesterday that Wood had to be sitting in a mafia role with no one to communicate with... which both Jpapy and Dawg had already established in their posts prior to Wood threatening to UD on us. And perhaps that's the reason they pulled their votes off him so fast.

 

[Kashta]

Later as I read further, the tide seemed to turn as both Jpap and Dawg shifted their focus away from Woody and toward Gunslinger and Zsandman.

Here's how the final votes landed. (Retractions shown in red text.)

Woody-3- Zaffy(10) Jpap(64) Jbradt(75) Noods(83) Annie(97) Dawg(109) TRS(111) Kash (124)
Gun-4- Ogre(22) Noodles(88) Zaffy(118) Jpappy(123)
Annie-3- Zsand(53) MC(86) Rich(122)

Jpappy, Dawg, Zaffy, and Annie all pulled their votes off Woodward. (Noods retracted as well, but before Woodward came out with his intention.)

Annie - final vote on MC.
Zaffy - cast the tying vote on Gun (over Annie).
Jpappy - cast the deciding vote on Gun (again over Annie).
Dawg - final vote on Zsand.

I wonder a lot now about Jpappy, most of all.. who decided to tip the tied votes in favor of Gunslinger. Was that because Jpapp is innocent and sincerely believed Gunslinger must be the most likely evil candidate up for grabs? Or... because taking Gunslinger out was a solid way to protect Annie who was tied with Gun for lynching?

My suspicions now are these players as a possible communicating mafia team - Jpappy, Dawg, Annie(?) With Zaffy following suit from his own (non-communicating) mafia viewpoint.

Of course, there's nothing conclusive about this..... yet. But it bears watching how these particular players continue to work in what could be a coordinated fashion and keep watching whether or not what they say matches the way they vote as the game unfolds.

 

[Kashta]

Now then.. having a look at today's posting with these suspicions in mind. I found it very interesting to read jbradt's long post this morning.

Here, he makes a reasonable sounding case against Rich for back-tracking on Woodward yesterday.

Okay, my job has been busy lately, so the only time I have to get on is when I get home. But here's some thoughts I've had in looking the thread over. I've been looking at rich quite a bit for reasons I hope will become clear.





Normal first couple posts.



Now it starts to get interesting... Ogre points out Woody's now infamous third vote on Zaffy.



Rich's first post of any real content. Seems to me like he found a reason to post (the vote), and then added a subtle deflection from Woody's action.



Again, deflection.



This is rich's response to Woody naming him. Don't get me wrong. Woody was a non-communicator so I give no stock to the names because he mentioned them. However I'm looking at reactions. Rich makes light of it and barely even responds. I'd have responded to that...



See bold above. You were right Jpap... had my time line mixed up. Sorry.



This is a side note, but Ogre, can you explain why we get less info from lynchings? I don't get what you're saying.



The drama builds after Woody comes clean. Rich starts to distance himself. Again, very subtle.



Contrast Noods'sssss response to rich's. This actually has me leaning noods a little innocent.

Rich taking a stand and kicking some bushes!

Wow, a lot has gone on, and if I'm not mistaken, you've played before. You have nothing to offer the town? At all? Really?

Really?



I wish I had quoted DD's response... but thanks rich!! :clap: Good effort bud!

I guess this is a dramatic way to say that rich seems to be really laying low. He's posting just enough to try and have a subtle influence without really committing or contributing to anything. Certainly not the town. He's distracting people from something that turned out to be right on, and totally downplaying stuff that anyone else would at least react to. Just seems scummy to me.

So, for un-townsmanly conduct, I vote to lynch rich311k.

I'll be back on when I can. Sorry for not being around more, but Tuesday and Wednesday are my days off, so I should be on a bit more conveniently.

Jbradt, if you're so sure that Rich distanced himself and tried to deflect/downplay suspicion against Woodward... well, then how do you feel about the way Jpappy, Dawg, Annie, and Zaffy possibly did this too.. while also pulling the pressure of their votes off Woodward at the same time?

 

[Kashta]

This post from Jpappy today does nothing now but reinforce the suspicion I've formed.

Here, Jpappy manages to point a suspicious finger at everyone else who didn't vote for Woodward. However, Pappy completely ignores the fact that he and several others rapidly retracted the votes they'd already placed against Wood.

Ok, so the only people who didn't vote Wood at some point (and are still around) were Zsand, MC, DD, Rich, and Ogre.

Zs- wasn't really around. Would like to hear his thoughts.

MC- Annie makes a good point about him building a small case for Wood but then saying that he doesn't like the train.

DD- made ONE comment on wood acting strange.

Ogre- first pointed out Wood placing the third vote, but sort of downplayed the train vote as it went on. Less subtle about it though.

Rich- I have to say that I agree with what jb said. He has a few one-liners but never insinuates that Wood is one way or the other.

I do understand that Wood being a non-communicator means that connecting him to a team is nearly impossible, especially at this point. What interests me more is the fact that certain people were wishy-washy about Wood. It was pretty obvious to some people that he was more likely mafia than the rest of the vote getters yesterday. It intrigues me that others avoided it almost entirely. Too afraid of making a splash perhaps?

Based on this my new suspect list is:

DD
Rich
MC
Annie- because of day 1 still.

For this post and all the reasons cited in my previous ones, I'll go ahead a place an actual vote now.

I vote to lynch Jpappy.

The logic Pappy tries to use here to sway us into suspecting DD, Rich, and MC appears to apply (even more convincingly) against Jpappy, Dawg, Annie, and Zaffy instead.... IMO.

If my suspicions turn out to be true and Jpappy IS mafia.... that was a real fine example of game play, Jpappy. You are very subtle but very effective at what you manage to accomplish in these games.

 

[noodles62]

You have some pretty good points there Kashta and I must say you are sportin more than "chickpeas", cuz you certainly are putting yourself out there for the hit. Mafia gets a hit this nightfall (& next) so it will be interesting to see where they go with it.

g/o thankfully nightfall is not until Tuesday as I dont have a lot of time to play this evening. I have a meeting to attend shortly and plan on spending the rest of my anniversary with my spousal unit. g/o

 

[Zaffy]

Now then.. having a look at today's posting with these suspicions in mind. I found it very interesting to read jbradt's long post this morning.

Here, he makes a reasonable sounding case against Rich for back-tracking on Woodward yesterday.



Jbradt, if you're so sure that Rich distanced himself and tried to deflect/downplay suspicion against Woodward... well, then how do you feel about the way Jpappy, Dawg, Annie, and Zaffy possibly did this too.. while also pulling the pressure of their votes off Woodward at the same time?

What is the point in keeping a vote on someone after they've declared themselves out of the game?

I honestly thought that once H20 saw Woods post that he would declare him to be dead, as stated in the rules.

...
If for any reason you need to leave the game, please PM me, do not post it in the thread. IF YOU POST THAT YOU QUIT YOU DIE AS SOON AS I SEE THE POST. NO EXCEPTIONS. YOUR ROLE WILL BE REVEALED. I don't care if you recant the quit you will still die.

...

I actually thought it was peculiar that you voted for him after he declared his intention to not play. Why vote for a dead man? In my opinion that is the most useless vote you can make. If he changed his mind and played, it would be near unanimous against him right now, to the point that we wouldn't be able to discuss anything else. So the only question about his certain death was whether it happened last night or tonight.

I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just questioning your strategy here, I don't think your vote on a dead lead is scummy. But I do think that you're over thinking the situation.

 

[jpappy789]

Kash:

I thought Wood still had a vote thus I sais I would keep my vote there to make sure he died no matter what. When I realized he retracted off of Zaffy and would UD even if he didn't contact Ice I figure that I might as well find another place for my vote. I thought I would be around for nightfall but turns out I wasn't so even if Wood came back I wouldn't have been able to switch and no point in leaving it there for no reason other than that. It's funny that you decided to keep your vote there and go after the people who switched. I wholeheartedly believed that Wood was mafia...go ahead and look at all my posts towards him yesterday as the day went on and he kept spewing BS. Just because I pulled my vote off when he said he was going to quit does not mean I was letting off him at all. Ice is a strict enough mod IMO that even if Wood came back and voted more likely than not he would not let a stunt like that slide anyways. You act as if my retraction was trying to draw attention away from Wood when a good portion of what was directed at him was from me in the first place. Sounds like a stupid way to play.

I chose Gun pretty much randomly. It was either him or Annie and I while I thought Annie's first post was unlike him, Gun hadn't said a word. Either way we didn't lose a townie which could have happened had I chose Annie.

Do you not remember that I was the very first person to even point out that Annie voted without saying anything else?

My logic is not 100% Kash, but given what Wood pulled yesterday I find it odd that certain people skirted around it. DD mentioned it once, MC tried to build a case but voted another way, Jb showed what Rich said and I agree that he too was noncommittal on the issue. I'm not trying to connect them to what Wood said or did. I'm doing the opposite, they ignored it for the most part probably because they didn't want to get into the mix of things...a mafia-like thing to do.

 

[Kashta]

You have some pretty good points there Kashta and I must say you are sportin more than "chickpeas", cuz you certainly are putting yourself out there for the hit. Mafia gets a hit this nightfall (& next) so it will be interesting to see where they go with it.

Well, you're probably right on that, Noods. I hadn't actually considered that before posting all this. And I'm not known for keeping quiet once I get hold of a theory I believe in. I guess it wouldn't be the first time I'd get myself killed for talking too much either.

At least if I do get hit over this, it's all out here for everyone else to follow through on. We still outnumber the mafia when it comes to voting and the innocent team gets to hit scum too. A win is still a win whether I'm still breathing or not. So it goes...