mafia 63- Who is Who

FF1, I hope you understand that my vote on you is based on the fact that you are not the mayor and is an attempt to keep the mayor alive.

While I am also sure that annie is not the mayor, I am also sure that most people that play this game do not trust me. I am not trustworthy and I understand their doubts.

I also want to stick to the plan, if I make it a me vs annie thing, then I am asking the town to follow me with no proof. I just don't think they will do that. The only way for the town to trust me is with proof.
 
Lab_Rat said:
JL, I am still confused as to why, if you truly are the policeman, you do not want to lynch Annie. Do you think Annie is the mayor?
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I know that annie is not the mayor.

I want to prove that I am the policeman. Me making it JL vs annie only helps annie's case that he is the policemen and I came out to make him come out. He came out as an act desperation.

The people that would choose me over annie, I think would be willing to lynch FF1. I also think the ones that have their doubts about me would be willing to lynch FF1. The ones that think I am lying, they will vote for me.

Even if annie and I are both mafia, what have we gained? We got rid of FF1 and put gaint targets on our backs. Oh and we cost the mayor 2 nights of looking for teamates.

I do want to lynch annie, just after I am confirmed as who I say I am.
 
johnlarson66 said:
Right now here is what is important to me: 1) The mayor does not get lynched, 2) That I do not get lynched and C) The mayor investigates me.

If I am not who I claim I am, what would I have gained? What would have my goals be? To get FF1 lynched, they were doing a good job of that in the first place. To get the policeman to come out, really this helps the mayor if I am found to be mafia, they will know exactly who to look into the next day. To have the mayor waste a day looking at me, this is no waste as the mayor will know if I am mafia or not.
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And to further expand on my question, and answer yours...

For what is important to you...
1) I agree, we must not lynch the mayor. You swear Annie is mafia scum, therefore he is not mayor. Nevermind that the mayor would never put themselves in such a precarious position unless they were a very naive, unskilled player (which Annie is the opposite)
2) Yes, I think that would be obviously important to you
3, or C) The mayor investigates you. What guarantees the mayor will decide to investigate you over Annie? If that is truly an important goal then you would be trying to lynch Annie, who you say is confirmed mafia scum. I don't get it. :confused:

From my perspective, what you have to gain. If you're innocent, not much. If you're mafia scum, you have everything to gain. Mafia team took a gigantic loss with the lynch of their hitman. As I see it, they are powerless. Now lets assume at least one investigation was successful (one pre-game and one post first nightfall). We have 2 communicating players for their team. They are desperate to do whatever they can to get an innocent lynched, but most of all, they need to protect the don. Problem is, that's gonna be real tough to do.

Enter FF...easy target. He's spastic, noobish, and pissing people off. If you and Annie can pull this off, the numbers shift in your favor. Lynch an innocent, the ratio shifts to 6 town to 7 mafia. With both of you being mafia scum, it won't matter which the mayor investigates. They won't find their policeman. They cannot use their hits. You can now role call as mafia scum to out all of the unknown mafia. Since you have the number advantage it will be easy to pick the rest of the town off, one by one, until you get the mayor.

See why I'm so concerned???
 
And to continue with why I think voting Annie out is so very essential to the town...

If you are innocent, especially if you are the real policeman, then it is very obvious that Annie is scum. No innocent would ever role claim like that unless they actually had that role. A mafia scum would. This is why I am voting Annie. This is why Annie needs to be lynched tonight. I do suspect he is the don, we can win this thing tonight by lynching him. If I am wrong about him being don, and you are really not mafia, we still lynch mafia scum by lynching Annie.

If FF is lynched instead of Annie, the scenario I outlined in the post prior could very well happen. You and he are both skilled enough players to pull off such a stunt, though it is (in Kash's words) a hail mary.
 
johnlarson66 said:
I know that annie is not the mayor.

I want to prove that I am the policeman. Me making it JL vs annie only helps annie's case that he is the policemen and I came out to make him come out. He came out as an act desperation.

The people that would choose me over annie, I think would be willing to lynch FF1. I also think the ones that have their doubts about me would be willing to lynch FF1. The ones that think I am lying, they will vote for me.

Even if annie and I are both mafia, what have we gained? We got rid of FF1 and put gaint targets on our backs. Oh and we cost the mayor 2 nights of looking for teamates.

I do want to lynch annie, just after I am confirmed as who I say I am.
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I can accept that. Im still not gonna change my vote, but i can accept that. If u ARE scum then you will die next so what do i care.
 
Lab_Rat said:
And to continue with why I think voting Annie out is so very essential to the town...

If you are innocent, especially if you are the real policeman, then it is very obvious that Annie is scum. No innocent would ever role claim like that unless they actually had that role. A mafia scum would. This is why I am voting Annie. This is why Annie needs to be lynched tonight. I do suspect he is the don, we can win this thing tonight by lynching him. If I am wrong about him being don, and you are really not mafia, we still lynch mafia scum by lynching Annie.

If FF is lynched instead of Annie, the scenario I outlined in the post prior could very well happen. You and he are both skilled enough players to pull off such a stunt, though it is (in Kash's words) a hail mary.
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You and JL both make really good points. I wont be changing my vote so i hope you can get more people to vote for annie. Good luck.
 
A hail mary is all the mafia have.

I retract my vote on Fishfriend1 and vote to lynch anniesnotok.

I know that annie is mafia.

So I guess I am making it a JL vs annie thing.
 
Fishfriend1 said:
You and JL both make really good points. I wont be changing my vote so i hope you can get more people to vote for annie. Good luck.
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This single statement does more to clear FF than anything else he has posted. I know he's posted a lot of random garbage but the reason I say this clears him is that no mafia would risk voting for someone implicated as their don. I have come out and said I think Annie is the don. FF agreeing with that and voting to lynch the don clears him (more than anyone else at least) in my mind.

From this point on, I think anyone voting to lynch FF is quite scummy.
 
Lab_Rat said:
Finally, some feedback! Thanks jpap, I've been trying to poke holes in my theory all night, but everything had an explanation for why it worked.

As to #1 and #2: yes, it hinges on that they are both mafia, and not only mafia, but I'm sure Annie is the don simply from JL's behavior. If someone could explain JL's behavior any other way, PLEASE do so! Why would someone RCing policeman even hesitate to lynch someone counterclaiming it? If you know your role, like I assume JL does, why wouldn't you take out the lying party? The only feasible explanation was that JL has a lot to lose from taking out Annie...Annie has a lot to gain from taking out JL. If Annie were regular mafia scum, not the don, the situation would not make sense. So I agree with you there. This means only one investigation would have been required to be successful. There have been two (one pre-nightfall, and one after night 1).

As to #3: When I was formulating the theory, turning it from every angle, I thought the same thing at first. But then I realized that I wouldn't RC if I were the policeman in the middle of this mess. Why? Because I would not want to throw myself into the mess and possibly get my policeman self lynched. I guess someone else would take a different approach, but the real policeman, knowing there is a real possibility one of the two that has falsely RCed will get lynched, would be doing the town a favor to let these two with some ulterior motive get themselves lynched. That's kind of a mess, so simplified, if you know your role, which is so important to the town, is being claimed by two liars, why would you throw your name in the ring with them? I think it would be foolish and detrimental for the real policeman to step up at this time.

I think your counter-conspiracy theory is interesting and I'm truly flattered that you think I could come up with something like that. If I didn't know my role then I could see where that could be entertained as a possibility. But it doesn't explain JL's behavior and why he refuses to vote for Annie when he's 100% sure Annie is lying scum.

Can someone please explain JL being 100% certain Annie is a scummy liar yet he 100% refuses to lynch him to me??? Like I said, the only plausible explanation is JL working with Annie to clear Annie's name.
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The problem I see is since JL turned to lynching Annie, and Annie to JL...then it automatically becomes a two horse race and the town is left in the dark trying to pick which side is more believable. As already evidenced it's not too hard to come up with any contrived reasoning or theory as to which one to vote for. If JL in the policeman then it puts him in the situation of trying to convince us he is that role which no one could do. I don't want to speak for JL but that was my reasoning.

To be honest, I almost believe JL more because it makes perfect sense why the real cop would come out when he did...he was safe from the hits and at the time didn't know the mayor couldn't come out to verify the role. If Ice hadn't killed the idea it would have been game over. Annie said he was forced to come out, which makes sense if JL is mafia, but I wonder why he hadn't thought of coming out anyways...

Lab_Rat said:
And to continue with why I think voting Annie out is so very essential to the town...

If you are innocent, especially if you are the real policeman, then it is very obvious that Annie is scum. No innocent would ever role claim like that unless they actually had that role. A mafia scum would. This is why I am voting Annie. This is why Annie needs to be lynched tonight. I do suspect he is the don, we can win this thing tonight by lynching him. If I am wrong about him being don, and you are really not mafia, we still lynch mafia scum by lynching Annie.

If FF is lynched instead of Annie, the scenario I outlined in the post prior could very well happen. You and he are both skilled enough players to pull off such a stunt, though it is (in Kash's words) a hail mary.
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So if Annie is NOT the don, then what? Would you believe JL or still lynch him?
 
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