Mafia #67 - 50/50 -- The Play

[jbradt]

That's funny you call me and jpap out when Dag and DD had the first 2 votes on FF. I don't see you addressing them at all...

How often is day 1 evidence very strong? It's generally not. That's why when someone posts something scummy, then keeps up with scummy and nonsensical posts I'll be looking into them with more scrutiny. You're the one who can't seem to get past FF. I'm plenty willing to look other directions. My vote will be on who I think is most scummy...period. Are you trying to give me reasons to vote for you?

And I would never pretend to understand what goes on in the mind of FF... :laugh: You suggest I give him the benefit of the doubt...how many times should I do so? I did last game and it bit me in the ***. Not going to make that mistake again. If he hadn't made scummy posts I would not be voting for him.

LOLOL... nope, I'm asking questions and putting my thoughts out there. If that's a reason for you to vote for me then have at it. All I'm saying is that we've interpreted his posts differently. And I'm wondering out loud if you've done it because he's FF and we still haven't found the rosetta stone to interpret his posts; or becuase you're scummy and want a safe vote.

What I suggest is that FF is a huge X factor. If he gets lynched day 1, we really aren't going to learn anything from it. I'm saying that by the end of the day, if that's the best we got, then let's do it. But it doesn't seem like you to place a vote so early.

Dag's vote I didn't think was worth commenting on since he made it with no evidence or reason. And nothing in particular struck me as scummy about DD... yet.

I think if you really look at it, I'm not so much talking about FF as using him as the focal point of my looking at you. I've talked about our interpretations and your behavior... FF might as well be a function for me in this discussion.

 

[Lab_Rat]

Here's where I said I thought FF was non-communicating...otherwise, why ask to be investigated?

The only thing you've given away is that you're non-communicating and didn't think things through before posting. I don't believe you've proven yourself to be a townie at all.

Now FF counters with saying I can't assume he's not communicating.

whenever i dont think first you can assume im not on a communicating team. Whenever i just come out and go idiot im a good guy, im better at evil for sure...

Then we had the rest, where I asked him if he was trying to claim comm innocent...blah blah blah.

Really JB, you're going to great lengths to defend him. I'd rather move on to looking at other scumspects instead of having tunnel vision about FF. I've made my points against him and there is no sense rehashing all of this over and over.

 

[jbradt]

Fair enough.

 

[noodles62]

:hi: Thought you might be missing me so just checking in before I head out to church...looks like I have some catching up to do when I get home.....

 

[Madcrawdad]

Pappy, I'm concerned about FF too. But I'm also concerned about what looks to be a runaway train forming on one person... day 1. Also the fact that both Mad and Ice named him as scummy (or something like that) but withheld their votes.

Also, after going after Noodles so fast and so hard last game (which wasn't any fun)... I'm relucant to pick someone to vote early on with so little else going on yet in this game. While I agree with most of what was said and that it seems scummy as heck... I also wonder if this is an approach the mafia wants the town to take.

Kash, I'd worry more about those who seem to be talking out of both sides of their mouth...kind of like you've been doing here.

Pappy, I'm concerned about FF too. But I'm also concerned about what looks to be a runaway train forming on one person... day 1. Also the fact that both Mad and Ice named him as scummy (or something like that) but withheld their votes.

Here you're concerned about the fact that some have found FF scummy and already voted for him....and your also concerned that others have found FF scummy and not voted him. So it looks like anyone finding FF's actions suspect concerns you....

While I agree with most of what was said and that it seems scummy as heck... I also wonder if this is an approach the mafia wants the town to take.

You agree that FF seems scummy as heck...but you've withheld your vote? Doesn't that concern you?

Also, what approach would the mafia be wanting the town to take?

The fact that you are even acting concerned that the interest in FF is scum-driven is absurd. Even if FF were an innocent townie (which based on his statements so far he likely isn't), the scum team would have NO idea as to his alignment, right? And based on his eariler statements, they would probably strongly consider him a good candidate for their teammate, right? This would probably make scum more likely to defend FF than try to lynch him, right?

We're playing a 50/50 (or really close for those who want to split hairs), which means scum is everywhere. IMO, based on FF's statements, those defending FF, or at least appearing to chew their nails over his lynch, are more likely to be scum, than are those actually trying to lynch him. Don't you think?

 

[IceH2O]

Ice, how exactly does my comment almost seem like mafia advising mafia? I'm not seeing your logic there.

Really? You need to ask this?

Ok... If you're both non communicating mafia then you can't talk to him but in the thread. It looks like you're telling him to lay low.

If you're communicating and he isn't then it look like you're telling him ok we got the point now lay low and we'll get you on the team soon.

Ice, I would like an explanation as to why you are reluctant to vote FF. You called Lab out early for saying she would vote FF but didn't...you did the same thing but gave a reason...apparently because he screwed himself over? I don't see why that is a reason to not place a vote, especially a retractable one.

I don't like how Kash is calling the FF vote a safe place already. That automatically makes someone second guess voting there for fear of looking scummy. I also don't like how she has suggested that FF screwed up and is being unhelpful, but never has called him suspicious or scummy flat out. She mentions that she is considering the vote (but wants to wait) and has been talking about how she could/would cut FF loose early if on the same team...it's curious, to say the least. All this talk about FF and how she would react but nothing direct about the scummy things he has said...

My reason to not vote him has been explained. I think he is dead either way. If both teams investigate him then he is dead in either case. I see no reason to waste my vote on someone who is already tagged but not bagged.
Also by voting FF you're giving mafia a place to look good by taking down one of their own via lynching since he is rogue and a liability.

Ice... I think Pappy mentioned this post earlier. Here is where you call out Labby for saying she'd vote for FF but didn't. I've got a couple issues with this. First, I've heard many players say this. I've said it myself, and I understand the mentality behind saying it. Why do you find this odd? Second, just because there is no vote tally does not mean there is no record of her statement. Something seems off with the logic I've come to expect from you.

Because when you say you'll vote or would vote someone and then don't it looks like 2 things. Either trying to get something started then you can jump on later or not at all or distancing.
A vote tally is a lot easier to pull then going through tons of posts looking for the one line that points to I'd vote for but not right now.

The word vote is pretty strong, so it triggers the mind to think that way.

If Labby had said you're my number 1 suspect for what FF had said it wouldn't have been near as stand outish to me.

 

[IceH2O]

The fact that you are even acting concerned that the interest in FF is scum-driven is absurd. Even if FF were an innocent townie (which based on his statements so far he likely isn't), the scum team would have NO idea as to his alignment, right? And based on his eariler statements, they would probably strongly consider him a good candidate for their teammate, right? This would probably make scum more likely to defend FF than try to lynch him, right?

We're playing a 50/50 (or really close for those who want to split hairs), which means scum is everywhere. IMO, based on FF's statements, those defending FF, or at least appearing to chew their nails over his lynch, are more likely to be scum, than are those actually trying to lynch him. Don't you think?

I disagree with this statement. I would agree with it if FF hadn't already dug his grave.

FF marked himself, if both investigate him he is dead one way or the other no matter his affiliation.
If he is mafia then its a loss they could deal with and look good in getting him lynched. I will say its not as concrete a looking good move as they can't prove they knew he was mafia.

The innocents on the other hand need all the bodies they can save and are never in the mindset of sacrificing a team mate as it doesn't help them.


I've said why I won't vote FF. He is already marked. The innocents invest tonight. They can invest him and if he is mafia then they can either hit him or somehow wait for a few votes to fall his way. If he is innocent they don't need to do anything and it will be up to the mafia to decide if they want to hit him or not.

FF if mafia will continue to screw up, I'm in the mindset that I'd rather watch FF for a few days and see what transpires from the comm teams.

 

[Madcrawdad]

If he is mafia then its a loss they could deal with and look good in getting him lynched. I will say its not as concrete a looking good move as they can't prove they knew he was mafia.

The innocents on the other hand need all the bodies they can save and are never in the mindset of sacrificing a team mate as it doesn't help them.

Aren't we playing a 50/50 with 2 identical teams? Instead of scum v. town it's essentially Team A vs. Team B. Why would a team's label really force them to behave any differently than the other?

 

[AnniesNotOK]

I vote to lynch FF.

At this point I am unwilling to overlook the fact that FF is a complete and utter distraction. By now it seems he would have grasped the basic fact that a player who posts nonsense and fluff does nothing but clog the thread, making it more difficult for the rest of us to sort through the mess. This is mafia strategy 101.

The fact that he continues to do this from game to game means he is either:

#1: ruint
#2: scum

I admit, I barely even read what he posts. This fact cost me dearly last game, as he was scum, and I not only ignored him, I overlooked him entirely. I realize now that I have to read his posts. All of them. :wall:

I agree that anyone looking for a reason not to lynch FF is likely to be scum as well. There is scum everywhere, and with what posts I have been forced to read I feel my chances of hanging a scumbag here are better than 50/50. Some of his posts are outright covered in slime.

I also feel FF makes a sensible choice for SB if the roles were "tweaked" (I can see Dawg giggling like a schoolgirl over this) but of course this is just a hunch.

JB's posts in defence of FF are suspicious to me. It seems to me he has stuck his neck out, so to speak. I agree with JB on one point, at least FF does have people talking on D1.

 

[Lab_Rat]

My reason to not vote him has been explained. I think he is dead either way. If both teams investigate him then he is dead in either case. I see no reason to waste my vote on someone who is already tagged but not bagged.
Also by voting FF you're giving mafia a place to look good by taking down one of their own via lynching since he is rogue and a liability.




Because when you say you'll vote or would vote someone and then don't it looks like 2 things. Either trying to get something started then you can jump on later or not at all or distancing.
A vote tally is a lot easier to pull then going through tons of posts looking for the one line that points to I'd vote for but not right now.

The word vote is pretty strong, so it triggers the mind to think that way.

If Labby had said you're my number 1 suspect for what FF had said it wouldn't have been near as stand outish to me.

So you're proposing both teams are going to waste their investigations on FF? Ice, that seems a bit ridiculous. This is a game of numbers for both sides, so for town any dead scum is good dead scum. Scum will do whatever they can to save their own, even those of which they're not 100% sure.

And your argument against me is all semantics. Really, you think #1 suspect doesn't equal who I would vote for? Geez, now you're picking at nothing. I wanted to take more time to think instead of throwing a vote out there prematurely.

I disagree with this statement. I would agree with it if FF hadn't already dug his grave.

FF marked himself, if both investigate him he is dead one way or the other no matter his affiliation.
If he is mafia then its a loss they could deal with and look good in getting him lynched. I will say its not as concrete a looking good move as they can't prove they knew he was mafia.

The innocents on the other hand need all the bodies they can save and are never in the mindset of sacrificing a team mate as it doesn't help them.


I've said why I won't vote FF. He is already marked. The innocents invest tonight. They can invest him and if he is mafia then they can either hit him or somehow wait for a few votes to fall his way. If he is innocent they don't need to do anything and it will be up to the mafia to decide if they want to hit him or not.

FF if mafia will continue to screw up, I'm in the mindset that I'd rather watch FF for a few days and see what transpires from the comm teams.

So you're saying you think the innocents are going to use an investigation on FF? With this format I think the scum are in need of all the warm bodies they can keep around as well.

So you're so against lynching FF, who would you vote to lynch at this point Ice? Who has been scummier?

Aren't we playing a 50/50 with 2 identical teams? Instead of scum v. town it's essentially Team A vs. Team B. Why would a team's label really force them to behave any differently than the other?

Yeah, this is along the lines of what I was thinking too. To me, Ice's arguments don't work with this format.