Mafia #77 Game thread- Back to the basics

[the wizard]

No, I'm saying that I picked up on him being det, I didn't know for sure, but I figured if I saw it, the mob would.
I though he was scum...
I honestly didn't plan on that. I was trying to get hit by the mob so he would have a chance.

Sorry I was born in the morning, but not THIS morning. I am not buying it. As others have pointed out you have had difficulty in remembering what you have said when you started explaining yourself.

If your story was true, you would remember everything.

 

[Kashta]

Kash...don't you think the mafia knew Rich was the Det and Pir was lying because Pir is their teammate and they were just trying to get the Det to come out? Or do you think Pir is telling the truth now?

Well, I certainly don't think Pir is telling the truth now. That's obvious... IMO. For the rest, that's a good question. It's one I've been going back and forth on since the beginning.

I find it hard to believe anyone could lie to us so much with innocent intent. Making up stories, fake role claiming, and all that is pure scummy behavior. We certainly can't believe anything he says about anything.

On the other hand, I find it difficult to believe any mafia team would have allowed him, much less encouraged him, to go about his "game" play so poorly. It was Pir who got himself into the hot seat from the start.

So far, I've seen nothing in the thread where some other mafia person may have benefited from "giving us" Piranha. No one made themself look more pro-town by going after him as scum or just voting against him. No one tied to "save" him or even bothered to defend him. And, as a "mafia ploy" using Pir to flush out the real detective? Holy crap.... I just don't find that credible either.

Now, of course, that is how it unfolded as a result.... but I doubt the mafia team would have relied on Pir if that's what they intended the result to be.

I'd say someone else with more experience or more skill at this on the mafia team would have initiated that kind of manipulation stunt instead of them (all) agreeing to let Pir to handle it in the game thread. Role claims (real or fake) are rather sophisticated and it's tricky for someone to pull it off well enough to deliberately "lure" someone in. That's not something you just hand over to someone who still lacks finesse in this game.

If I remember correctly, it was Rich who suggested Pir was probably just trying too hard, he was over-enthusiastic, and got in over his head. Then when he realized we were that close to lynching him for it, he panicked and made up the false role claim.

I don't believe for a moment that Pir intended to protect the real detective by sacrificing himself. I think it's more likely, he tried to save his own skin and couldn't think of another way to do that without being able to communicate with anyone he could ask for advice.

 

[Chill]

I don't have a lot of time to post right now, but I'll be back later on.

Looking at the thread, I've seen it suggested that we ask Ice to shorten the days. My vote on that is absolutely not.

There are still 16 people alive in the game. Hell, we've had full games run with a lower number than that. Of course the thread will go slowly at times, that's normal. But with so many people in the game, it also picks right back up again whenever something new happens.

We should not reduce the time the town gets to sort through everything we need to discover one little bit at a time. This would be unfair to the town because it would adversely impact our ability to win this game.

That was probably me. I thought everything was going to stagnate once we all voted Zaff. What you say makes sense - no objection here to staying with the 48.

 

[Kashta]

Kash I agree with most of your post to me. The biggest problem I still have is this.

The detective is a huge threat to the scum, but in this case we are talking about last night which is a very specific case. At the point where you told Rich to call his invest he became "walking dead" and nothing, nada, zip as a threat to the scum. You need to consider everything that played out, and the order of nightly events. If Rich names any innocent the scum just hits them. The town learns nothing except the innocents name and we are going to learn one each nightfall anyway. If Rich names a scum they hit Rich.

Okay... we see this differently is all. That's fine too. These discussions are beneficial to everyone.

All I can say is the #1 goal on any mafia team I've ever been on has always been to take out townie PRs. That's first and foremost. And in this situation, if the mafia had any inkling they had a chance to kill the town's investigator, it wouldn't matter who was named or which role result they may or may not get. That player would die. Simple as that.

Not only had he already identified one of their team by name, there was nothing they could do to guarantee that Rich actually investigated the person he said in the thread he intended to do. Something else could have been posted or Rich could have simply changed his mind before nightfall.

You think the mafia would feel comfy leaving a serious risk like that alive? Okay. I just don't. It takes what control they have over the game away and leaves too much to chance, in my opinion. It makes no sense to me that maybe they would just sit back and do nothing to shut someone up who was possibly investigating them OR confirming someone as innocent, knowing that investigator could easily switch who they investigated at any moment before nightfall.

 

[Zaffy]

I know things.

I'm willing to talk. If you guys don't vote me off tonight I will give you the Identity of the Don.

Surely the Mafia will hit me tonight, so I need your help. Guarantee my safety and I will deliver the Don to you.

 

[Kashta]

That was probably me. I thought everything was going to stagnate once we all voted Zaff. What you say makes sense - no objection here to staying with the 48.

Thanks, Chill. :thumbsup:

 

[dirtydawg10]

I know things.

I'm willing to talk. If you guys don't vote me off tonight I will give you the Identity of the Don.

Surely the Mafia will hit me tonight, so I need your help. Guarantee my safety and I will deliver the Don to you.

:rofl:

 

[Piranha86]

Sorry I was born in the morning, but not THIS morning. I am not buying it. As others have pointed out you have had difficulty in remembering what you have said when you started explaining yourself.

If your story was true, you would remember everything.

That's fine. I understand that you guys are going to vote me out.

 

[Piranha86]

I know things.

I'm willing to talk. If you guys don't vote me off tonight I will give you the Identity of the Don.

Surely the Mafia will hit me tonight, so I need your help. Guarantee my safety and I will deliver the Don to you.

I kind of like this deal. Not. It's just not gonna happen Zaffy.

 

[dirtydawg10]

Well, I certainly don't think Pir is telling the truth now. That's obvious... IMO. For the rest, that's a good question. It's one I've been going back and forth on since the beginning.

I find it hard to believe anyone could lie to us so much with innocent intent. Making up stories, fake role claiming, and all that is pure scummy behavior. We certainly can't believe anything he says about anything.

On the other hand, I find it difficult to believe any mafia team would have allowed him, much less encouraged him, to go about his "game" play so poorly. It was Pir who got himself into the hot seat from the start.

So far, I've seen nothing in the thread where some other mafia person may have benefited from "giving us" Piranha. No one made themself look more pro-town by going after him as scum or just voting against him. No one tied to "save" him or even bothered to defend him. And, as a "mafia ploy" using Pir to flush out the real detective? Holy crap.... I just don't find that credible either.

Now, of course, that is how it unfolded as a result.... but I doubt the mafia team would have relied on Pir if that's what they intended the result to be.

I'd say someone else with more experience or more skill at this on the mafia team would have initiated that kind of manipulation stunt instead of them (all) agreeing to let Pir to handle it in the game thread. Role claims (real or fake) are rather sophisticated and it's tricky for someone to pull it off well enough to deliberately "lure" someone in. That's not something you just hand over to someone who still lacks finesse in this game.

If I remember correctly, it was Rich who suggested Pir was probably just trying too hard, he was over-enthusiastic, and got in over his head. Then when he realized we were that close to lynching him for it, he panicked and made up the false role claim.

I don't believe for a moment that Pir intended to protect the real detective by sacrificing himself. I think it's more likely, he tried to save his own skin and couldn't think of another way to do that without being able to communicate with anyone he could ask for advice.

I was never really going back and forth on this. I saw it as Pir getting himself in trouble with his posts and deciding that if he was going to be lynched anyway he might as well try and take down the Det before he went. I'm guessing he was the most logical choice because he was already receiving the suspicion and the votes. Granted it wasn't a landslide at the time he RC'd but I just don't see why an innocent would ever false RC and put the Det in jeopardy. Is that what you are trying to have us believe? Are you trying to put that doubt in the vigs head so they don't pull the trigger? Unless I am misreading your post...you are beginning to scare me Kash.

Rich may have said he thought Pir was misguided but that was before the RC. After the RC I think Rich was very clear that he knew Pir was scum. He even voted for Pir. I'm just not buying that a townie would do what Pir did.