Mildly controversial topic, prestressing fish for shipping

[msjinkzd]

This is the response I got from Frank Falcone (coryologist):

Heya Frank!

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Howdeeeee!

I was wondering if you had any literature or links to literature on the toxins released by some cories during shipping and information on pre-stressing them. There is a debate going on on aquariacentral and I would like to cite some references.

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I recently got into a pissing match over this as it happens whenever I ship my C121's.


I used this:


C121 C. sp cf burgessi

http://www.corycats.com/C121%20.jpg

If you are worried about the the fish you are buying releasing toxins and poisoning themselves in the bag before you get them home, this is what I do.
Ask the sales person to catch the fish and put them in a container or bag and make sure that the fish have been disturbed, leave them floating the un-sealed bag for 5 minutes, then ask the sales person to fill another bag with fresh water and transfer the fish without any of the water from the first bag.

You can tell within 5 minutes of being bagged, if the Corys are going the release toxins, because a light foaming starts to form on the surface of the water.



Ian


If you try different combinations of words on a Google search, you will find other bits and pieces, but I did not save any of those and don't recall which search phrases were most successful.


I hope that you are well and having fun.


Cheers,


Frank

One more link to read up on. I will post further discussion as I receive it from Eric and Ian.

edit: apparently you have to be a member to read the link so paraphrased text included above.

 

[cicrush13]

Thanks for the update! That is great! Wish I knew that before I bought my last set of cories, 2 died the next day

 

[msjinkzd]

Further from Frank Falcone:

You can tell him my technique, which is:

C121's are known for being large producers of toxins, when stressed. If you bag them, straight away, they will flop over and look stone dead. When you pick up the bag and jostle the water, it gets slightly foamy. Before bagging them we put them in a small bucket and shake them. They release so much toxins that the water actually gets foamy, almost like there is detergent in the water. We change the water and repeat the process at least 3 or 4 times over a couple of hours and then let them sit a couple of hours before bagging. We then let them sit a couple more hours and inspect them and the water, before we box them up.





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Also.


I have shipped 60 and lost 2, a number you can expect shipping any Cory. They must be shipped one to a bag.

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Hope to see you one of these days soon!
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When I get the fish room finished, I want you to come by.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Life sure has been hectic here!

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Here, too, but I see some relief on the horizon. Ha. We'll see.





Be well.

Frank

 

[jetajockey]

Thanks Rachel=]

 

[msjinkzd]

The response from Eric Bodrock:

Rachel,
Wish I could tell you where to look in books that are available here in the USA to find out more info, but there really isn't much out there. Ian Fuller has an article about avoiding self poisoning on his site at www.corydorasworld.com and much of the information I got about it came from conversations with German hobbyist and scientist. Not sure what the debate is about, it is fact that some, but not all Corys produce a protein toxin. It is from a gland located close to the base of the pectoral spine. Corydoras paleatus is one that does not produce the toxin. From my own person experiences, I have noted that C.sterbai, C. robineae, C. guapore, C. gossei are some of the species that produce high dangerous levels of the toxin.
Pre-stressing them is as simple as chasing them around for a few minutes the tank or placing them in a bucket and over the period of a hour "kick" the bucket often to startle them. Use water from their original tank or "fresh" water from another source to bag them in for shipping.

Wish I could offer more,

Eric

 

[DGC]

well then there you have it, fact, well done Rachel

and there was silence.

 

[Rikkias]

Such a shame that this 'debate' will happen over and over again, each time having the same references cited and still refuted as 'cruel' and 'unnecessary'.

If only the people on moral high horses would swallow a bit of pride and try to offer an open mind the hobby would make much more progress, much sooner.

Similar debates are seen in shipping some corals (certain SPS's). I was sending frags in water (standard approved practice) but having dire sucess rates with most bleached/dieing on arrival. Then I read about sending wrapped in damp newspaper and gave it a try, surprise.. surprise 100% success rate with arriving unbleached and alive, even though wrapped damp newspaper is seen by the 'activists' as cruel and unrequired.

Slight diversion from topic but as I said at the beginning, this debate will happen again many times with the sides split between the people applying a process, and the welfare activists (who IMO should not keep fish at all considering the collection methods, welfare concerns and 'damage' to environments that many of them hark on repeatedly about, oft unnecessarily).

 

[BettaFishMommy]

i would think a small amount of short term stress is a much better option than death! i'll kick the bucket, thank you very much, lol.

 

[jetajockey]

"Kick the bucket for them so they don't kick the bucket on you."

 

[Lab_Rat]

"Kick the bucket for them so they don't kick the bucket on you."

You could make that into a bumper sticker. :laugh: