Moorish Idol
- Thread starter kbaker721
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Moorish Idols are very difficult to keep, even for experienced reef keepers. Feeding is the big issue here; the chances of getting them to accept any prepared or frozen foods is slim to none.
Personally, I don't think these fish should even be sold in stores or online - probably best left in the ocean. Those who do sell them usually won't guarantee them because of their dismal survival rate.
Personally, I don't think these fish should even be sold in stores or online - probably best left in the ocean. Those who do sell them usually won't guarantee them because of their dismal survival rate.
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A friend of mine in Tampa works as a professional in aquarium maintanance, set up, and cleaning. His clients are people with huge houses and LARGE (300 gallon + sized) saltwater aquariums. He has told me on numerous occasions about the difficulties involved with Moorish Idols. One of his clients was so enamored with how the Idol looked, that they continued to purchase them, one after another, and they just kept dieing. They went through 5 before they gave up, and this was in a professionally maintained aquaruim.
Yeah, I haven't read anything good about keeping Idols in captivity. They are extremely attractive, but even large public aquaria have mixed successes. There are some Idols that will SURVIVE for a while in captivity, but almost zero will thrive in a hobbyist tank.
I'm friends with the owner of an LFS in my area and because of the low prices and beauty of the Moorish Idol we've experimented with keeping them in home aquaria. I personally kept a beautiful specimen in a 90 gallon tank at home for 18 months. (Which is long for a Morrish Idol in captivity.) Here are a few tips if you want to give it a try.
1. We discovered that the most hardy specimens are collected from Hawaii. So start it off right with a good fish.
2. You must plan on it being the main show fish in your tank. But here is the trick: It needs to be a mature, stable tank without any swimming (competing) fish. So in order to give it a go I had to remove all of my water column fish and then immediately introduce the Idol.
3. Of course you must have great water conditions, though it doesn't have to be reef quality. And it needs some space to move so a 4 ft. wide tank or better is necessary.
4. Medium size (4 in) seems to be the most hardy, too small and they are too frail, too large and they are too cranky to acclimate. Acclimate the fish quickly (30 min) as they hate being in the bag very long. Keep the lights off for the first day or so. Turn the lights on low only to feed.
5. Start it off with live brine shrimp for the first week or two to get it eating comfortably. Transition to frozen brine and Mysid. Then to dried krill, plankton, then to flake/pellet if you wish. After about 4-6 weeks it should eat about anything. If your live rock has a good population of amphipods and other yummies all the better. They feed on the rock by blowing a "puff" of water at the targeted critter and then nab it when it floats up.
6. After a month or so you can begin to add smaller, community type tank mates.
When the Moorish Idol has decided it has had enough it will just die with no advance warning. Mine was eating fine and showing no signs of anything wrong one evening and then the next morning it was dead. It broke my heart because I thought after 18 months it was in for the long run.
HTH
1. We discovered that the most hardy specimens are collected from Hawaii. So start it off right with a good fish.
2. You must plan on it being the main show fish in your tank. But here is the trick: It needs to be a mature, stable tank without any swimming (competing) fish. So in order to give it a go I had to remove all of my water column fish and then immediately introduce the Idol.
3. Of course you must have great water conditions, though it doesn't have to be reef quality. And it needs some space to move so a 4 ft. wide tank or better is necessary.
4. Medium size (4 in) seems to be the most hardy, too small and they are too frail, too large and they are too cranky to acclimate. Acclimate the fish quickly (30 min) as they hate being in the bag very long. Keep the lights off for the first day or so. Turn the lights on low only to feed.
5. Start it off with live brine shrimp for the first week or two to get it eating comfortably. Transition to frozen brine and Mysid. Then to dried krill, plankton, then to flake/pellet if you wish. After about 4-6 weeks it should eat about anything. If your live rock has a good population of amphipods and other yummies all the better. They feed on the rock by blowing a "puff" of water at the targeted critter and then nab it when it floats up.
6. After a month or so you can begin to add smaller, community type tank mates.
When the Moorish Idol has decided it has had enough it will just die with no advance warning. Mine was eating fine and showing no signs of anything wrong one evening and then the next morning it was dead. It broke my heart because I thought after 18 months it was in for the long run.
HTH
Why would anyone keep a fish that will die with no advance warning because it is ill-suited for captivity? That seems to be cruel to me. I would advise against keeping them unless you have a SERIOUS interest in advancing the field of Idolatry (the captive care of Moorish Idols) and I would actually start that by replicating the natural food of the Idol prior to keeping them.
This is what I eventually am thinking of doing prior to working with candiru in captivity, if such a thing is possible.
This is what I eventually am thinking of doing prior to working with candiru in captivity, if such a thing is possible.
Chil,
And I suppose you've never lost a fish.
Since the question was asked, and the only responses were all negative I thought I'd share the positive experience that I had with it. And I do consider the experience a positive one as it was a beautiful and active fish for the 18 months I had it.
For all I know I saved it from being eaten by a shark.
And I suppose you've never lost a fish.
Since the question was asked, and the only responses were all negative I thought I'd share the positive experience that I had with it. And I do consider the experience a positive one as it was a beautiful and active fish for the 18 months I had it.
For all I know I saved it from being eaten by a shark.
I understand. However, I cannot condone the captive care of a fish which is so poorly-suited for the hobbyist's tank. Your positive experience aside, I would very much be interested in seeing a formula for the replication of the specialized food which the Idol eats in the wild before I see any more Idols being sold.
I have also seen that diets such as the ones proposed by you cause Idols to waste away as they cannot utilize the nutrition from these diets, and, over time, they just flat-out die.
By the way, if you were to look at "My Dorm Denizens," at the bottom of my posts, you would recognize that I have lost fish. Anyone who has not, hasn't been in the hobby for a significant length of time.
I am merely suggesting that homework be done with this delicate fish and its very specialized eating habits in the wild (and scientific replication of such foods being done) prior to purchase. If you don't like it, that's fine, but I find it to be a waste to keep a Moorish Idol without its complete natural nutrition, as it does not thrive without it.
Further on down the road, when there have been captive bred Idols enterring the hobby would be the time to experiment with new and different foods, but removing an animal from its natural habitat and failing to wean it off its natural foods (weaning involves using its natural foods, remember) IS A WASTE. You will not convince me otherwise.
We are at an impasse. If you wish to continue this discussion further, it would be my pleasure, but it would probably be as much of a waste (of time) as keeping a Moorish Idol in the aquarium without the specialized nutrition such fish regularly enjoy in the wild.
I have also seen that diets such as the ones proposed by you cause Idols to waste away as they cannot utilize the nutrition from these diets, and, over time, they just flat-out die.
By the way, if you were to look at "My Dorm Denizens," at the bottom of my posts, you would recognize that I have lost fish. Anyone who has not, hasn't been in the hobby for a significant length of time.
I am merely suggesting that homework be done with this delicate fish and its very specialized eating habits in the wild (and scientific replication of such foods being done) prior to purchase. If you don't like it, that's fine, but I find it to be a waste to keep a Moorish Idol without its complete natural nutrition, as it does not thrive without it.
Further on down the road, when there have been captive bred Idols enterring the hobby would be the time to experiment with new and different foods, but removing an animal from its natural habitat and failing to wean it off its natural foods (weaning involves using its natural foods, remember) IS A WASTE. You will not convince me otherwise.
We are at an impasse. If you wish to continue this discussion further, it would be my pleasure, but it would probably be as much of a waste (of time) as keeping a Moorish Idol in the aquarium without the specialized nutrition such fish regularly enjoy in the wild.
I believe Anthony Calfo summarizes the issue best in his book.
"Take information for what it's worth and consider the source. Your advisor may have the most beautiful aquarium that you've seen, but has that success been repeated numerous times for extended periods of more than just a few years? In fact, ask yourself how many marine aquarium systems you've seen that were established for more than ten years."
I must say that Moorish Idols have proven to be a very poor aquarium subject. That you advocate feeding the fish only brine shrimp for quite a period of time shows little knowledge of their natural eating habits. Moorish Idols are primarily sponge and algae eaters. Brine shrimp are quite poor in nutrients and can still result in various hunger problems despite being rapidly consumed. These problems can develop over long periods of time, or can happen relativly quickly.
I have heard from a few sources that they do not need to be the only specimen in a tank, and having other peaceful tankmates that readily accept flake or pellet food can 'teach' the Idol to accept these items as food. Whatever food you do choose, it needs to be a good source of sponge and algae.
And you are correct in that they do frequently experience shipping problems. The tramua of capture, shipping, and potential damage to their mouth makes this a very important part of selecting the proper specimen.
I am not advocating that nobody attempt to keep 'difficult' specimens, experienced fishkeepers need to occasionally 'adventure' into uncharted territory to see if there were things that had been overlooked in the failure to successful keep these organisms. However, these are not the proper fish to sell to anyone who has a less than stellar track record, as evidenced by their dismal success rates.
"Take information for what it's worth and consider the source. Your advisor may have the most beautiful aquarium that you've seen, but has that success been repeated numerous times for extended periods of more than just a few years? In fact, ask yourself how many marine aquarium systems you've seen that were established for more than ten years."
I must say that Moorish Idols have proven to be a very poor aquarium subject. That you advocate feeding the fish only brine shrimp for quite a period of time shows little knowledge of their natural eating habits. Moorish Idols are primarily sponge and algae eaters. Brine shrimp are quite poor in nutrients and can still result in various hunger problems despite being rapidly consumed. These problems can develop over long periods of time, or can happen relativly quickly.
I have heard from a few sources that they do not need to be the only specimen in a tank, and having other peaceful tankmates that readily accept flake or pellet food can 'teach' the Idol to accept these items as food. Whatever food you do choose, it needs to be a good source of sponge and algae.
And you are correct in that they do frequently experience shipping problems. The tramua of capture, shipping, and potential damage to their mouth makes this a very important part of selecting the proper specimen.
I am not advocating that nobody attempt to keep 'difficult' specimens, experienced fishkeepers need to occasionally 'adventure' into uncharted territory to see if there were things that had been overlooked in the failure to successful keep these organisms. However, these are not the proper fish to sell to anyone who has a less than stellar track record, as evidenced by their dismal success rates.
I think since Squid is speaking from experience, his comments are more valid then "I've heard" or "I've read".
Furthermore he is trying to be helpful by sharing his experience which may help others .
I understand the argument that their natural foods and habitat needs to be duplicated and captivebred stock should be developed to improve the survivalrate but:
Since both Slipknottin and Childawg doesn't believe in trying to keep fish which have a poor survivalrate, think about this - In the beginning of the hobby the survivalrates of almost all fish was low and the SW hobby was almost a guarantee that you would only have your fish temporarily. If everything had been abandoned right there and then a lot of fish and other animals would have been saved, right?
There is a difference between someone indiscriminently throwing a mandarin, seahorses, cleaner wrasses in a FO tank and has them die over and over vs someone who is trying to accomodate a specific species needs and documents it. The second person is trying to advance the hobby and is supplying some information to help things along.
If you don't have experience with something don't bash others who do and are trying to do something positive.
Furthermore he is trying to be helpful by sharing his experience which may help others .
I understand the argument that their natural foods and habitat needs to be duplicated and captivebred stock should be developed to improve the survivalrate but:
Since both Slipknottin and Childawg doesn't believe in trying to keep fish which have a poor survivalrate, think about this - In the beginning of the hobby the survivalrates of almost all fish was low and the SW hobby was almost a guarantee that you would only have your fish temporarily. If everything had been abandoned right there and then a lot of fish and other animals would have been saved, right?
There is a difference between someone indiscriminently throwing a mandarin, seahorses, cleaner wrasses in a FO tank and has them die over and over vs someone who is trying to accomodate a specific species needs and documents it. The second person is trying to advance the hobby and is supplying some information to help things along.
If you don't have experience with something don't bash others who do and are trying to do something positive.