New tank, New fish owner, HELP!!

[lethalp]

My daughters just got new tanks for christmas. They are both 2.5 gallon tanks. We bought 2 guppies and 2 danios, 2 gups died and now I have a gup and a danio in one tank and one danio in the other. We set the tanks up before christmas, so they have had water in them for about 2 weeks. I have these white bubbles at the top of the tanks, what should I do? I try to take it off every day but it keeps coming back. I also changed some of the water in both of them tonight. But after reading some stuff on here I fear I may have just killed the last ones I have. In the tank with the 2 they are both staying close to the top and appear to have reddish gills. Of course I don't know what a healthy fish looks like so I don't know if they are supposed to look that way or if something is wrong. I am reading everything I can get my hands on and trying to figure out how to do this. Hey what can I say? I am a dog trainer for cryin out loud fish are a whole new ball game for me. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated, right now I am getting confused, I am afraid to do anything, or afraid I will do to much. HELP!!

 

[morleyz]

Welcome to AC...

Let me first recommend that you get yourself a good test kit for your tanks. Make sure you have tests for ammonia, nitrItes and pH. You'll likely at one point or another want a nitrAte kit...but that can wait for now.

Without having a ton of details on the tank specs and water parameters, you're definitely experiencing what is known as cycling. Read up on the Nitrogen cycle.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/nutrient.html

To summarize, your fish produce ammonia as a waste product. Ammonia is toxic to your fish and will begin to build up in your tank as soon as you add fish. There is a beneficial bacteria that will begin to build in your tank that will process the ammonia into nitrItes (this build up takes some time so your fish are exposed to ammonia during this time). The nitrItes are also very toxic to your fish. Fortunately, there is a second variation of beneficial bacteria that builds up and processes these nitrItes into nitrAtes (once again, while we wait for the colony to grow, your fish are bathing in toxins). In controllable concentrations, nitrAtes are harmless to fish. When the bacterial colonies build up enough to fully process the ammonia and nitrItes as quickly as they are produced, you have what is known as a fully cycled tank. At this point we do weekly/bi-weekly water changes to keep the level of nitrAtes at a reasonable level. This whole cycling process can take anywhere from 4-8 weeks.

I would say right now you're experiencing a spike in the levels of ammonia and that is why you've lost your fish. Since I suspect you won't be able to talk your daughters into staring at an empty fish tank while you "fishless" cycle your tank, you'll be best off picking up 2-3 danios for each tank. They'll survive the cycling process pretty well.

Things you should do to help your cycling:
1. Immediately do a 50% water change on both tanks with clean (dechlorinated) water to decrease the toxin levels.
1a. If you have access to a fully cycled tank (friend, relative, etc.) ask them for a bit of their filter media. This is where the majority of your bacteria will colonize and adding this to your filters will help the cycling process along.
2. Keep a close eye on your ammonia and nitrite levels and keep them low by doing 30-40% water changes with clean (dechlorinated) water.
3. Don't add any more fish until your cycling is complete...once again, this will be when your tests show 0 ammonia and 0 nitrItes for several days in a row.
4. Read through as much info here and elsewhere as you can on cycling a tank.
5. Don't believe all the hype about chemicals that help the cycling process. There has yet to be a tried and true chemical way to get cycling done any faster than the natural way.

I hope that wasn't too much for one post...please ask any questions you might have, I'll be glad to clarify...this is where the single most important part of fishkeeping will start to rear its ugly head. You must have patience young Skywalker. The cycling process can be frustrating and will seem like it's going to never end...but we've all been through it and will help you out.

Good Luck

 

[carpguy]

Well, Morleyz covered pretty much everything as far as the cycle goes. The skepticalaquarist is also a very great place. For a quick friendly intro, this article from theKrib's faq is also very good. It covers preparing your tap water, the cycle, and some of the basic chemistry you'll want to know about.

As for the bubbles: I have some bubbles, I think there were more during the cycle. Unless its really unusual I wouldn't worry too much about it. The water will do different things that you might not expect. Most people seem to have a cloudy water episode during their cycles when the water gets milky for a few days, then clears. When in doubt, please feel free to ask…

And good luck, I hope everyone else makes it through.

 

[beviking]

Welcome again. Good advice has already been given, I'd just like to emphasize NOT to use any cleaners or soap on anything that is used for the tank. Soap and fish don't mix! Make sure your hands and anything reaching into the tank is without contaminants (ie. soap).
That said... my 3yr old is now washing his hands on his own and usually uses the same sink I use to get water from when doing water changes. He doesn't always get the soap off his hands and it ends up on the faucet handles, where it is then transferred to my hands when filling a bucket of water. Get the picture? Good luck!

 

[lethalp]

more on the new tank troubles

any suggestions on what brand or type of tests kits to buy? Some are tube type and some strip? Also, how can I tell if my fish are stressed or sick? as I said I have 1 gup and 2 danios left. What does it mean when you see red gills? And how red is sick? How do you know if a fish is gasping for air? ANd how do you fix that? ALso, what kind of water are you supposed to use to fill the tank? I have a water softener, and I thought that was ok, then the lady at the pet store said NOT to use soft water? I am already considering getting a bigger tank and starting over, I just feel really bad that I seem to be picking these guys off one by one. I can get a dog through parvo, or being hit by a car, and can't save a fish (sigh) please keep the feedback coming, and I will keep reading. THANKS 2 ALL!!

 

[Cichlid Woman]

Okay, point number one: Are you adding a dechlorinator to the new water when you do water changes?! (Stress Coat, NovAqua, something like that. You can get it at the pet/fish store.) If not, you're not getting rid of all the chemicals and nasties usually present in tapwater that can kill your fish. That alone could do it.

Also, don't change out more than half a tank of water at a time, at this point. A quarter of a tank would be better. (Your tank is cycling, and wholesale water changes will interfere with that process.)

Also, try to make sure the new water going in matches (as closely as possible, feel it with your hand) the temperature of the water already in the tank. If you don't, you might begin to see small white spots on your fish that look like grains of salt, and that's a whole different can of worms.

Also, the soap comments are very true--did you guys wash the tanks with soap and water before you filled them and put fish in? If you used soap, you'll need to rinse for a long, long time to get all traces of it out. Use vinegar or bleach in one of the rinses to make sure.

Hope this helps. I like what you said about buying a larger tank, in spite of the situation you're going through. Don't look now, but you may have already been bitten by the Tropical Fish Passion ...

-- Pat

 

[lethalp]

dying fish sypmtoms?

ok, I am accepting the enevitable, my guys just aren't looking too good, anyone on sure fire signs? ANd would it help at all to move them to the other tank (also 2.5 gal) with the one danio? That tank is a few days younger water wise than the one I am having trouble with. Please give me ideas soon, they are staying near the top and looking at me............................WAAAAAAAA!!

 

[morleyz]

Re: more on the new tank troubles

I try and address these individually:

any suggestions on what brand or type of tests kits to buy? Some are tube type and some strip?
I like the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit...it retails for around $20 but it has all the tests you'll need to get started. It is a test tube/liquid reagent type kit. I prefer these, but the strips are close enough for the accuracy we're dealing with.

Also, how can I tell if my fish are stressed or sick?
Loss of color (turning very dark), hide a lot, have trouble swimming normally, rapid breathing, laying on the bottom are just a few signs.

What does it mean when you see red gills? And how red is sick?
Red gills are signs of gill irritation. This is due to your fish trying to breathing in ammonia water. There's really no scale or red...but certainly the more red, the more inflamed.

How do you know if a fish is gasping for air? ANd how do you fix that?
A lot of times you will see your fish staying on the surface of the water. Also watch for very rapid breathing. The reason this is probably happening in your cycling tank is because the fishes gills are not at full capacity because they are damaged by ammonia poisoning. You should do a water change (50%) and this can help.

ALso, what kind of water are you supposed to use to fill the tank? I have a water softener, and I thought that was ok, then the lady at the pet store said NOT to use soft water?
If you have access to unsoftened water, you'd be better off, but you'll be OK either way. To fill your tank or do a water change, you should fill a bucket (one dedicated only for fish tank use...should be bought clean and new...and should NEVER have come in contact with soap) with water closely matching your tanks temperature. Add your dechlorinator to the bucket and mix it up good. Wait a few minutes, then add to the tank (if you doing a change, you should have (or get if you don't have) a gravel vacuum for removing water from the tank as well as solid waste that has collected on the substrate.

I am already considering getting a bigger tank and starting over

Bigger tank = Easier to manage...you can get a 10G pretty cheap nowadays. Look into fishless cycling if you want to do things the most humane way...otherwise, get yourself some more danios...they've worked time and time again as cycling fish.

EDIT: Oh yeah...one more thing...I disagree with CW regarding larger water changes while cycling. I think the biggest concern should be the health and well being of the fish. Generally speaking, as long as there are detectable ammonia/nitrites in your tank, your bacteria colonies will continue to grow...however, a high concentration of ammonia/nitrites will certainly kill off your fish sooner or later...Frequent 50% water changes while fishy cycling are OK by me...maybe someone else can chime in on that point and give us another POV.

 

[carpguy]

If you can detect a measurable amount of ammonia or nitrItes in your tank, there is more than the bacteria can deal with. The colonies will continue to expand until they can zero out the toxins. As long as there is more than they can handle, even if its a small amount more, the colonies will continue to grow. As far the fish are concerned, the ideal scenario is if we use water changes to keep the toxin level as minimal as possible. As far as the bacteria are concerned, they'll continue to grow until they begin to starve. Water changes do not slow down the cycle. (Even if they did, go the extra week and save the fish).

Some of the dechlorinators, such as Amquel, also detoxify Ammonia. I think that they do this by converting it from its toxic form (NH3) to its less-toxic form (NH4, Ammonium). The ammonia is still available to the bacteria in this form, so your not going to screw up the cycle. You will screw up some test kits. If its going to save the fish, I'd try that and let the NitrIte and NitrAte kits guide you to the end of the cycle. Check the Krib's faq on Cycling Your Tank especially the sections on Ammonia toxicity and Minimizing Stress during the cycle.

Bigger tanks are easier to keep stable and easier to dilute, so bigger is better in this case (or at least the obsessives have provided us with this handy rationalization ).

Good luck and let us know what happens. Fingers are crossed.

 

[lethalp]

update

Well it happened the guppy died I moved the one remaining danio to the other tank. The danio in the other tank seems to be happier with some company. The one tank has no fish now and the other has 2. Now then my husband took the filter and the fake plants out of the empty tank. Before he did it he did an amonia test and the one that had the gup in it had a reading, but not in the toxic level. The one with the danio was fine. SO now my question is, can I put anything in the empty tank? My 6 year old (who already thinks I killed her fish) Will be coming home today, so I would really like there to be at least 2 in there. Could I get an alge eater and a couple fish? What kind of fish are the best starters? The guy I talked to at petsmart (don't laugh) said gups were not a good starter fish. Anything besides danios? What about tetras? Oh and do I leave the water the way it is or make adjustments to it beofre anything new? Thanks again for all the help! Hats off to you all. P. S. I am looking into getting a bigger tank, I think I have been bit by the fish bug uhoh