Ongoing battle with rescued Discus

[avionics30]

Chad,

Unfortunately, not an option at all. There's no space in my apartment at all, not even for another 10G tank. I've reached my limits. I think I will make a drastic turn and go with a planted tank, and control water parameters that way. If my TDS is so low, would that mean that it's not necessary for me to do as many water changes? I need to look for alternatives to having a bin, or I'll have to give these fish up.

If by going planted, and investing in a TDS meter, I can possibly control water changes, and the parameters better and stabalize the system without the need for a bin?

Hold off on a planted tank until you get your water right and get your fish back to health. I don't remember what your tank size is or what your feeding schedule is like. If you could refresh my memory, I could advise you accordingly. You should only need a TDS meter if you are breeding. It's even more important to know TDS then. For now, you can do well with the GH and KH test kits.

Now, you've metioned going planted. This is, and this is my opinion, the best way to go and can reduce the number of water changes that you perform. I have had great success with discus in planted tanks that I would only change water 50% once a week. It works well, but it requires balance for everything in the tank. Master the discus first.

 

[shawnhu]

The size is a 46G Bow front. My normal feed is morning flakes, afternoon ColorBits pellets(multiple times during the day) and night time Hikari FBW or SanFran BrineShrimp. I turn off canister filter while feeding at night and resume when food is all gone.

I've thought of going 1/2 planted. Although I don't have the space for it, I thought of using a 10G tank and having it planted, and have it hooked up to the 46G via pump and overflow to "purify" the water. It'll grow plants, and keep the water changes down. It'll allow me to have a BB discus tank for growing, at the same time helping my plants, and keeping water in good condition. It's just an idea, haven't put it together yet.

My other 3 10G tanks are all planted, learning as I go.

 

[avionics30]

Very cool. You have about double the discus I would put in that tank, so definately perform water changes once daily or every other day at the longest stretch. If you would like to have plants in there while getting discus right, put some potted plants in. The pots allow you to use high quality substarte without using tons of it and costing you a fortune.

Your idea about the plant filter is a great one. I use a similar setup for breeding, except it's on a large scale (a large lit sump with lots of plants). It removes ALL of the nitrate.

Anyway, for now focus on getting that water back to where you need it to keep your discus healthy!

Best wishes!

 

[Star_Rider]

Thanks star! I have had PLENTY of experience with core water perameters! Looking at the water report that Shawn sent, I think he's on a water system called the Catskill/Delaware system. The TDS of that system is only 48 compared to the TDS of the other that is listed at 188. If he was on the system with a TDS of 188, there would be no issues. It lists an average Ph bewteen 6.6 and 9.1 which tells me that his carbonate hardness is also very low. The GH and KH readings that he posted earlier are likely correct.

I would suggest Ro Right over Epsom salts due to the fact that the RO right would offer a more diverse mineral supplement. Baking soda is just the easiest thing to use to aid in KH supplement. Crushed coral may be another option. Place it in a filter and let it do it's thing.

agreed..ro right would probably work better.

 

[sushiray]

I had raised discuses many moons ago - yours look very nice & healthy. Acidic ph is a must. I had similar organisms - water must be cleared of organics - any food remains in a discus tank becomes fodder for these "worms". get a few corys in (I like albinos myself). nice micro shots - one looks like a hydra - not good. Change 25% water every 2days, reduce the food content at each feeding, feed twice a day. close the direct lighting, use room light for now - so they won't be so skittish. put a light colored shield on your bulbs to soften the lighting. feeding any live food? brine or worms once a week. the meds with filter on? can you isolate a pair at a time to medicate? good luck....

 

[shawnhu]

agreed..ro right would probably work better.

I thought I was seeing double, or dejavu, but I checked, star_rider is playing tricks on me!

 

[shawnhu]

I had raised discuses many moons ago - yours look very nice & healthy. Acidic ph is a must. I had similar organisms - water must be cleared of organics - any food remains in a discus tank becomes fodder for these "worms". get a few corys in (I like albinos myself). nice micro shots - one looks like a hydra - not good. Change 25% water every 2days, reduce the food content at each feeding, feed twice a day. close the direct lighting, use room light for now - so they won't be so skittish. put a light colored shield on your bulbs to soften the lighting. feeding any live food? brine or worms once a week. the meds with filter on? can you isolate a pair at a time to medicate? good luck....

Thanks for your input sushiray and thanks for the complements on the fish! I've thought of these things, and would really like to get a clean-up crew for these fish later on. As of right now, they really need to grunt through the treatments before I can do anything else. I would like to get the tank planted, with either sand or soilmaster as a substrate, and maybe even try an Amazonian biotope. I'm not too worried about those worms, but the Hydra? does look scary. Fortunately for me, it was dead when I found it. I'm doing more frequent water changes than that to make sure water quality is top notch. I do find that the light is a bit bright, and they do seem to enjoy less light most of the time. I do have the filter on when I treat with meds, because I want to make sure I get them all, even if they are living in the filter. I thought about isolating and treating as a pair, but I figure if the tank itself is contaminated, there's no point to alternate treatment, I'll never rid these fish of these disease if the tank is constantly contaminated.

It'll be a long battle, but I'm gearing up!

 

[shawnhu]

I wouldn't worry about matching the KH exactly when performig water changes. When I adjust, I add some, wait an hour, test and add more if necessary. Your fish won't be bothered by it. If you add crushed coral to the filter I would jusst let it do it's thing and not worry about it. Maybe test now and then to make sure that it's doing it's job.

What will bother them is the GH or TDS shift. You need to match that pretty closely using the RO right. If you can't get a storage bin or barrel, then you cuold try this...

Get a large pot and mix the RO right and tap water (with conditioner) and as you are filling your tank, add the pot of water with the RO right in it as you go. The trick, especially the first time, will be getting the mix just right. You might have to toy with it a bit until you know exactly how much RO right ot put in your pot of water that, once added back to your tank, will equal the 200ppm that you are seeking.

Does that make sense? I know it sounds like a lot but once you get a routine down, it won't be that hard.

Best wishes!

Sounds like something that might work! From what I understand, TDS and GH at the 200 mark is mainly for providing nutrients in the water for growing Discus. Discus that are grown, and ready to breed should have lower TDS, correct? I might seperate the herd if that's the case, since I have a mix in there right now.

If a temporary KH drop is ok with the Discus, then I may very well go the CC route instead of the Baking Soda route. Although, I've made a 4dKH solution for my Drop Checker already, it might not be too hard to figure out how much baking soda is needed to raise the dKH to 4 with a 50% water change.

I tested the water, and the pH is currently at 6.6-6.8 and the Nitrate is at 5-7ppm. I didn't bother to test the rest, since everytime I test, it's always 0. Do you think I need to do a GH test? That's probably the only thing that may increase, would be interesting to see.

 

[prolude006]

One thing I missed, are you doing water changes while using the prazipro and or the jungle anti parasite tabs? Unfortunately you have to do one big water change and then not change any water for at least 5 days, even if you are growing out discus!! I had to do this myself so just checking. I would also suggest going with the epsom salts which will help the fish pass the infestations they have. There is a reason for using prazipro first and then the fizz tabs, first the liquid causes the parasites to loose control of their latch systems without causing internal injuries to the fish. That is really the only point to prazipro, the parasites dont actually die right away. The parasites will be weak from not feeding and then the fish will pass them at this point. The fizz tabs will then kill the parasites within the tank itself. With medicated foods you have no idea how much the fish are actually getting plus it dissolves in the tank as well so again what amount of medication are you dosing them with!!
You could try plants and use EI dosing, that may help your levels come up a bit, although your fish should get all the nutrients and minerals they need from their food, mine grow and breed fine with a tds of 65.
I would also check your kh again as my cousin just told me his is around 6 from the tap in NYC. Does your building use any other filters or treatments itself?
I have a question to, how does a ph range of 6.6 to 9.1 tell you anything about the carbonate hardness? The city adds sodium hydroxide to raise the ph from the catskill watershed as it is very corrosive. I would get an RO system and then add ro right as suggested, there is just too many things the city is putting in to make the water "safe"

 

[shawnhu]

One thing I missed, are you doing water changes while using the prazipro and or the jungle anti parasite tabs? Unfortunately you have to do one big water change and then not change any water for at least 5 days, even if you are growing out discus!! I had to do this myself so just checking. I would also suggest going with the epsom salts which will help the fish pass the infestations they have. There is a reason for using prazipro first and then the fizz tabs, first the liquid causes the parasites to loose control of their latch systems without causing internal injuries to the fish. That is really the only point to prazipro, the parasites dont actually die right away. The parasites will be weak from not feeding and then the fish will pass them at this point. The fizz tabs will then kill the parasites within the tank itself. With medicated foods you have no idea how much the fish are actually getting plus it dissolves in the tank as well so again what amount of medication are you dosing them with!!
You could try plants and use EI dosing, that may help your levels come up a bit, although your fish should get all the nutrients and minerals they need from their food, mine grow and breed fine with a tds of 65.
I would also check your kh again as my cousin just told me his is around 6 from the tap in NYC. Does your building use any other filters or treatments itself?
I have a question to, how does a ph range of 6.6 to 9.1 tell you anything about the carbonate hardness? The city adds sodium hydroxide to raise the ph from the catskill watershed as it is very corrosive. I would get an RO system and then add ro right as suggested, there is just too many things the city is putting in to make the water "safe"

Thanks again for posting. When I treat with Prazi in the water, I don't do water changes. I haven't used the fizz tabs yet, as I would like to leave them as a last resort. I'd like to hit them with internal meds first, and then work my way to the water. I understand that not all of them are willing to eat the Jungle medicated foods, which is why I purchased the pure powder form and plan to make my own food mix. I'll monitor who eats, and who doesn't, and may QT and try to force feed.

I've heard of using Epsom while treating for internals, but when I tried it, my fish did back-flips outside the water, it was pretty scary. I'll use it only when I must, as of right now, they are not bloated, as this was their first round of internal meds. A second round should start this weekend. I'll keep you all posted on the results.

I'll have to look more into the planted tank thing, and the EI dosing. The KH from my tap is indeed less than 1. I know this because I've created a 4dKH solution from tap, following the directions meant for RO/distilled water. There are 3 different water systems that server NYC. Your cousin could possibly be on one of the other systems. I believe that a general large fluctuation in pH indicates low KH. A high KH would stabalize the pH in a shorter range that what's reported.

As much as I love these fish, I can only do what my budget and space would allow. It wouldn't be feasable for me right now in my life to purchase an RO system, and to store a bin. I've found that NY's water is pretty stable compaired to other city water systems, and they do not add chloramine like most other cities are starting to. NY's DEP really doesn't do much to their water as far as treatment goes to make our water safe, it's mostly done naturally from the Catskills. We're pretty blessed with naturally clean and clear waters.