Organs keep growing when stunted?

[reptileguy2727]

Not that few fish are stunted, but that relatively so few of the stunted fish exhibit the traits that are considered to be a symptom of a far from proven theory of organs keep growing even if the fish stops. Not to mention that most of these traits have other causes that are not ruled out, poor diet being one thing that can cause many of these issues, not necessarily their organs growing beyond their internal limits.

 

[Star_Rider]

there is research that consistently shows the issue with large eyes on stunted fish. the eye's continue to grow regarless of the cause of stunting.. keep in mind that the organs will get most of the nutrients when consumes..the muscle and skeletons show the earliest signs of malnutrition. in cases where stunting may be caused by lack of food.
check wildlife studies regarding stunting in ponds etc.
they eyes will continue to the adult size or the relative size of the species at the given age of an otherwise healthy fish.
reptileguy..the eyes are organs...if you are referring to internal organs malnutrition is one cause of stunting but not the sole contributor.

coler is correct there are other factors..carrying capacity I believe is a better term when considering stunting etc.

 

[Coler]

Think about a corrollary of the 'Organs do not continue growing' theory - that would be the 'fish grow to fit the size of the tank' theory. Neither is entirely true (the latter is an evil half-truth), neither is entirely untrue.

I would amend the last word to 'accurate' and leave it at that

 

[reptileguy2727]

Do you have any links to these studies?

Even then I have not come across many stunted fish that have abnormally large eyes. Those may also be one exception because they are internal. If they keep growing they do not hit a body wall or other organs, they simply grow farther out of the head. So the space limitation is not really at work there.

 

[Star_Rider]

no links these are docs at the library (WSU)

I actually studied similar docs at WSU when I was getting my BS in forestry.
you see in Forestry we had to consider the impacts of timber harvest. which directly affect the carrying capacity of the land. long term and short term(not all bad btw)
had to do a stint and studies re Wildlife and carrying capacity.
impact of wildlife in habitats.

 

[Star_Rider]

you may have to do research at a University Library.

I did all my research there when getting my BS Forestry..btw I had to study the impacts of timber harvest on the ecosystem.
you may also want to quiz some of the 'experts' ar some of the Discus forums too
but we must keep in mind that large eyes are not the sole indicator of stunting and may also be attributed to other abnormalities.(gentic and or environmental)

you may also want to quiz area fisherman..I have personally seen stunted trout..their heads are typically abnormally large in regards to thei body size..but then again as pointed out what is the root cause of this stunting. there are many variables that are related to stunting.

more importantly what are the effects of 'stunting'.

a malfunctioning liver may enlarge..but is it a result of environental issues which may be part of stunting?

 

[reptileguy2727]

Good thing I am a bio major at GMU. Remember what journals?

That is one of my points too, large eyes don't necessarily mean they are stunted.

It is just something I have seen repeated a lot with effectively no or at best very little hard evidence for.

 

[Rbishop]

I think some organs are genetically predestined to be a certain size; it may be below, at or above normal, for a given species. The environment the fish is kept in can affect that growth, from a nutritional standpoint, from developing correctly to the code imbedded in the cells.

The environment can also affect proper development of the skeleton and skin tissue.

I can easily correlate the poor water conditions setting up for a small skeletal frame and organs trying to reach normal size, which, IMO, would cause some very distorted fish.

 

[pinkertd]

Here is some excellent reading on the explantion of eye size and discus and why some are different.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=49201

 

[Coler]

It is just something I have seen repeated a lot with effectively no or at best very little hard evidence for.

I believe the point to the replies to this thread it is perhaps that no one is going to advocate keeping fish in conditions likely to stunt them on the basis that there is effectively no or at best very little hard evidence that their organs will continue to grow while their skeleton does not.