Overloading on purpose

[Sting]

Is My Tank Overstocked?

I have a 37 Eclipse heavily planted and fully stocked (looking great), and a 10 Gallon (empty) and I am going to stock the 10 Gallon now. I have bought SeaChem Fluorite as the substrate, rocks, and a nice piece of atrificial driftwood.

Well, the thing is, I know how I am going to stock it. I have three options really:

Option Number One:
4 Kuhli Loaches
1 Dwarf Gourami
8-12 Neons
1 Oto Cat

Option Number Two:
4 Kuhli Loaches
Pair of Rams
Something else, haven't thought it out...

Option Number Three:
4 Kuhli Loaches
Pair of Kribensis
Something else, haven't thought it out...

The thing is, I am leaning toward option Number One, seems to have the most color, most interesting fish and the most beauty. It's going to be fully planted, I've already decided that (live my 37 Gal) and I have the whole setup figured. It would work for all three setups, the thing is, is it okay to overcrowd with the fish on Option Number Oen Like I am planning?

I really would like 12 Neons, along with all my other planned fish, but I know it's overcrowding. I also know plants lighten the bioload, and that Neon's don't produce much waste anyway, and Kuhli's clean up bottom left-overs, and the Dwarf Gourami is very small. The question is, would it really be crossing the boundaries? I would like other opinions before I splurge. I can deal with 8 Neons, but I am really pushing for that extra four. Also, out of Option Number One, which fish do you recommend me cycling with? I can buy some extra Zebra Danios and just transfer them to the school of Zebra's in my 37 Gal. when it's cycled, what do you recommend?

So here lie the questions:

Which option to go with?
How many neons?
What do I cycle with?

 

[Sting]

Little help here! LOL!

 

[Kit Walker]

Well all those options are pretty much overloading a 10G. Why would you want to overload a 10G on purpose? The latter 2 are using pairs of cichlids which would easily call 10G their territory, poor luck for the kuhli loaches slithering around in cichlid territory with nowhere to escape in a 10G! As for neons, maybe you should use the 10G to keep a school of them.

 

[Richer]

Agreed, I don't see why you want to overload a tank... it just doesn't make sense to me. If you want more fish, get a larger tank.
Personally, I would just go for the school of neons (7-10 of them a little more if you have good filtration). A 10 gallon tank is just far too limited to really have a bunch of different fish in it (unless they are all fairly tiny).

*edit*
Forgot to answer all of your questions. For cycling, check out this link. Fishless cycling is for the most part more benefitual than cycling with fish. The article will speak for itself.

You will find that the goal of most of the fish keepers on this board is not "How many fish can I stuff into this tank." Its "How many fish can I put into this tank, while maintaining good water quality, and whom will get together nicely." For most of us, we keep fish because it we enjoy it, not because we want to see how many fish we can put into a tank.

-Richer

 

[Sting]

I've been on this board for over a year, I have just had to re-register because the boards have changed and I've been away for a while. I know what I'm doing, I'm not dumb, but thanks for trying to help me anyway. I know what I'm doing, I've researched my ears out. I only have space for a 10 Gallon, anyway, I already have a 40 Gal which is the biggest I can put in my house, and now I'm going for a smaller one. I know my limitations, and I know that yes these fish go together (on my first option) and I know those cichlids aren't even that aggressive, why would Kuhli's have trouble!?!?! Now I know a 10 Gal. might be a little small for the Kribs or the Rams, that why I'm here asking questions! I've never heard of such problems, especially with as many hiding places as I have in my tank. I simply was asking if my setup would be ok for the bioload, or if it would be too much (referring to Option Number One), I know this setup, and I know it would work, I just don't know the constraints on a 10 Gal. since it is my first official 10 Gal. setup, and have heard you can push it over the 1 inch of fish rule per gallon if they are fish such as neon's, ect.

All I want to know is if:

4 Kuhlis
10 Neons
1 Dwarf Gourami
1 Oto Cat

Is overstocking, or if I need to rethink the numbers on my fish. I am not overstocking on purpose, persay, I just wanted to let you know that I'm not dumb, and I know I've gone over the rule (porbably, that is why I'm asking isn't it lol ) and I would like to know you guys' opinions so I don't make a mistake, and lower the neon level. Thanks, sorry if you misunderstood me! Thanks for the help so far!

 

[BigFishDude]

your question was answered three times already. ALL of those options are an over load. for one contrary to your belief the kribs are highly territorial when breeding. I'm sure the rams are too, but not sure.

 

[Sting]

Ok, but now I need to know how to resolve it I've already stated I only want to go with the Neons, Kuhli's and Dwarf Gourami, I just would like to know how much I need to lower the neon's numbers to be safe. Somebody said around 7-10, wouold that be ok? I think maybe 8 or 9 sounds good, but I really would like more opinions so I don't go wrong. Thanks

 

[Harry Tolen]

I will just chime in to agree with the others that this would not be a good idea. Although controlled overcrowding is sometimes used in fishkeeping, particularly in cichlid setups, as a means of reducing (or possibly just dispersing) aggression, that technique would not be recommended for a tank as small as 10 gallons. From a nitrification perspective it would not be recommended in that sized setup either, as the smaller the tank you are using gets the more unstable its environmental conditions become, especially in an overcrowded situation. You would be likely to experience pH crashes and immune system breakdowns from a quick buildup of organic pollutants, even if your ammonia and nitrites were kept under control by a large biofilter (such as a Penguin 330).

Therefore, I would definitely not go with any of the cichlids you have identified, would hold the number of neons down to 6, and the kuhli loaches to 2. Even then, you will need to do regular maintenance, probably changing 25-30% of the water every 5-7 days or so, just to keep up.

BTW, rams are warm-water fish, and neons like it much cooler. Thus they would not be a good mix in any case. The rest of the fish you have chosen will do OK in a tank with a temperature around 75F, which should be OK for the neons too.

 

[jafo]

I tell you this from someone who overstocks and knows what you're getting into. My 10g is overstocked and moderately planted. 10g and other small tanks are very tricky tanks to overstock. Unless you are willing to do very very frequent water changes and also test the water very very frequently, you might be regretting it. If anything gets just a little off in a small tank, it can goes south faster than you can imagine. Due to the small amount of water you'll be dealing with their is very little if any, margin for error.

Now as for how overstocked your #1 is without modification when full grown:

4 Kuhli Loaches 20" double 1" per gallon by themselves
1 Oto 1.5" doesn't do well in singles so 2 would be best
1 Dwarf Gourami 2"
8-12 Neons 10.5"-15.5"

That's 34"-39" in a 10g. Man that's some serious overstocking and big time problems waiting in the wings.

Now if you dropped the Loaches, add 1 Oto, and only go with 8 Neons you'll be down to 15.5" or 1.5" per gallon with fish that aren't very active. That, imo is doable. Personally I'd drop the DG as well or agression could become a problem as well. This is all my opinion based on my experiences with overstocking.

 

[Sting]

Thank you Jafo! Your opinion is very helpful! Just what I've been looking for! I'm glad you and Harry not only told me "no" but expanded upon your opinions and told me why, it helped me out a lot. Thanks for all the clarification. Now the problem is that I want a bigger tank if I can't house all those fish LOL! Too bad I can't fit any other tank in my home Oh well, thanks for helping me out so much, and I think I am going to do:

2 Kuhli Loaches (the only reason I was pushing for four is because I ahd read they do best in 4 or more)
6 Neon Tetras
1 Dwarf Gourami
1 Oto Cat

That means 5 inches for the Kuhlis, 7.5 inches for the Neons and 2 for the Gourami, and 1.5 for the Oto cat. That makes 16 inches of fish, when everything is grown to its fullest, if the Kuhlis reach 2.5 like the profiles, and the neons reach 1.25.

Geez I swear a 10 Gallon looks so much bigger than it really is, because in all reality, you can't fit much in it, but for some reason I am very content with such a small tank. I guess my bigger 40 Gal. makes up for it I will update with pictures as I go along, so far this is what my 10 Gal. looks like.

http://geocities.com/JPXhome/fish.html