PETA roars over U.K. army?s bearskin hats

It just goes to show that there single mindedness would hurt the animals that they are supposed to protect. If any of these people had lived in bear country and experienced a drought or a population increase an saw these animals starve to death then say now that’s ethical.
 
I guess that would be natural. Eventually nature figures out how to deal with increases in population. But if the bears are hungry we can always feed them some PETA sandwiches.
 
TKOS said:
Eventually nature figures out how to deal with increases in population.
Kind of like there are only as many Malaysian Trumpet snails in your as the amount of food will support?

Do you suppose this will happen to humans at some point? I mean, really... how many more people can this rock hold without some sort of *big* disaster happening? 7 BILLION seems like a lot to me...
 
Timmain,
Don't forget that humans are what cause the earth to be more productive. Without humans, fruit trees wouldn't produce half as much nor would vegetable plants. By humans performing crop rotations and caring for trees, and then, of course, feeding animals and raising them and making sure they are healthy, protecting them from predators (other than us), the populations of most animals and plants are much more productive than they would be without our help. The Earth is run more efficiently with our intervention than without.
 
Beeker:
No doubt we have advanced ourselves and our tech... but there's always a saturation point. We just haven't reached it yet.

Soylent Green, anyone? I hear it tastes GREAT!
 
We never will reach that point. Don't forget: Everything was created. God has a flawless plan. As long as people go along with His plan, everything will be fine. If the earth gets harmed, it would be due to the actions of evil elitests that think that they know what is best for everybody. In a way they claim to be self-proclaimed gods. In reality they are either evil or just plain idiots.
 
I don't know if I agree with that, or at least not 100%.

Your so-called increase in productivity is only from a human perspective. With the exception of GMO's and hybrids, the actual productivity has changed very little. Crop rotations don't increase productivity, they decrease the rate of soil depletion. While infinitely better in terms of soil health, they also result in a greater area necessary to grow the same quantity of food, I would define that as a decrease in productivity, where I'm defining productivity as food produced per unit area. This also means a greater amount of deforestation. While some of this wood will be used as lumber, when increasing agricultural area, most is slash and burn, which means converting carbon from plant matter to greenhouse gases, ultimately, CO2.

I've yet to see how we "care for trees". Yes, the 30% of the clearcut which is replanted is managed by silvicultural types, but we haven't made any great improvements to forest health. Sure, we prevent forest fires, but all that that means is that instead of having small fires on a fairly regular basis, the debris builds up and we end up with huge blazes.

Raising animals as food crops is not an increase in global productivity. It's definitely a good thing, but 'protecting them from predators' just means hungry predators, or from a different perspective, cutting out a piece of the food chain. Viewing predators in the Disney-esque manner as some evil beast is a terribly jaundiced view of nature. For one thing, while we have a tendancy to burn our deadfalls and eat the healthy animals, the predator takes out the sick, old, and injured.

I'm not saying that we're the root of all evil or trouble. The things that you mention are ways that we can effectively manage our surroundings to minimize the impact that we have on the Earth. However, they do not consist of an improvement on nature. They are a way of supporting an imbalance that we create through overpopulation. They are good to the degree that they allow us to sustain a massive population without denuding the Earth like a massive swarm of locusts, but they aren't improving on the way things would normally be.

Tim, while I won't go to the hippy-esque extent of Mother Earth and all that, I do believe that horrible diseases like HIV are part of nature's way of culling our herd. As we're no longer threatened by any predators, disease is really the only control left. They are sadly far less selective than a predator, but I think that as our population continues to grow, nature will keep shooting out more things to try to slow/stop/reverse our growth.
 
Beeker said:
We never will reach that point. Don't forget: Everything was created. God has a flawless plan. As long as people go along with His plan, everything will be fine. If the earth gets harmed, it would be due to the actions of evil elitests that think that they know what is best for everybody. In a way they claim to be self-proclaimed gods. In reality they are either evil or just plain idiots.
Well, I'll certainly agree with the evil, idiotic industrialists part. I see enough of that with my own two eyes to know that's true.
 
happychem said:
Tim, while I won't go to the hippy-esque extent of Mother Earth and all that, I do believe that horrible diseases like HIV are part of nature's way of culling our herd. As we're no longer threatened by any predators, disease is really the only control left. They are sadly far less selective than a predator, but I think that as our population continues to grow, nature will keep shooting out more things to try to slow/stop/reverse our growth.

:)

Gaia's pissed. And with good reason. If you're into that sort of thing.

I still think that some day, some clear-cutter in Brazil's going to run across something terribly vile and easily transmittable, and then we (as a species) are in deep deep doodoo. Since there's no money in the cure, we won't be able to come up with a fix fast enough. Captain Tripps, anyone?
 
I'll agree with the idiot industrialist part, but not the evil. While I believe that evil does exist, I hate the word and its use. These days especially it is used far too easily to describe things that certainly are not evil. It also leads to the comfortable painting of a black and white world. Fine for children, but there comes a time to grow up and enter the real world where things are not so clear cut.
 
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