Thank you, any articles would be greatly appreciated. Maybe kuhlis just rank up there with neon tetras and otocinclus in random deaths.
PLEASE HELP! Something wrong with Kuhli...
- Thread starter BioHazard
- Start date
Thank you, any articles would be greatly appreciated. Maybe kuhlis just rank up there with neon tetras and otocinclus in random deaths.
Re: the testing of params when you discovered the problem.
I would have done the same. I would have just jumped and started taking care of it, just as you did.
Prior to this, in your testing of parameters, have you been finding the params within safe ranges? Do you know for certain the tank was cycled. Four weeks is pretty quick, unless you were able to seed the tank with beneficial bacteria from another tank.
I'm just trying to come up with a picture of what might be wrong. The other fish seem to be OK?
I'm just speculating on possible scenarios that may have been the problem.
Whatever may have caused the first loach's death, his body in the tank may have contributed to an ammonia spike that may have stressed the second loach.
Another possible factor; I had the experience of pouring water into the tank that I had failed to dechlorinate. I thought I had added conditioner, but I had added some kind of bacterial supplement.
Where the water flowed into the tank, three of my neons where in the inflow area and immediately began to roll over and swim like your loach was swimming. The fish further away from the inflow of water were stressed but did not die. I immediately dumped Prime in there, but the three neons died. One immediately and two others within a few hours.
If you did forget to add conditioner, did you see any of the loaches in the inflowing water? I've never felt safe about adding conditioner to the tank and then allowing the water to flow in counting on instantaneous neutralization of the chlorine and chloramines. I know a lot of people do that, but it worries me. For now, I'm doing buckets of water with conditioner in it. I don't have a python, though I plan to get one.... still... I worry about not pre-conditioning the water that will be flowing into the tank.
I would have done the same. I would have just jumped and started taking care of it, just as you did.
Prior to this, in your testing of parameters, have you been finding the params within safe ranges? Do you know for certain the tank was cycled. Four weeks is pretty quick, unless you were able to seed the tank with beneficial bacteria from another tank.
I'm just trying to come up with a picture of what might be wrong. The other fish seem to be OK?
I'm just speculating on possible scenarios that may have been the problem.
Whatever may have caused the first loach's death, his body in the tank may have contributed to an ammonia spike that may have stressed the second loach.
Another possible factor; I had the experience of pouring water into the tank that I had failed to dechlorinate. I thought I had added conditioner, but I had added some kind of bacterial supplement.
Where the water flowed into the tank, three of my neons where in the inflow area and immediately began to roll over and swim like your loach was swimming. The fish further away from the inflow of water were stressed but did not die. I immediately dumped Prime in there, but the three neons died. One immediately and two others within a few hours.
If you did forget to add conditioner, did you see any of the loaches in the inflowing water? I've never felt safe about adding conditioner to the tank and then allowing the water to flow in counting on instantaneous neutralization of the chlorine and chloramines. I know a lot of people do that, but it worries me. For now, I'm doing buckets of water with conditioner in it. I don't have a python, though I plan to get one.... still... I worry about not pre-conditioning the water that will be flowing into the tank.
I don't think the ph would be a problem. You've had them in the tank for four weeks?
I've learned here on AC that more important than ph is the gh, kh, and TDS, and any dramatic change in that, usually such as putting a fish in a tank that has radically different gh, kh, and TDS without acclimating slowly.
Having said all that, if the loaches have been in the tank for four weeks then they weren't subjected to any serious swing in those parameters most likely. I suppose during water changes there might be situations where the new water is radically different in gh, kh, and TDS, and if so then that could be a problem.
KarlTH has stated that he has successfully kept fish in a wide range of ph and even with swings of ph, but that fish are much more sensitive to sudden radical changes in gh, kh, and TDS.
I've learned here on AC that more important than ph is the gh, kh, and TDS, and any dramatic change in that, usually such as putting a fish in a tank that has radically different gh, kh, and TDS without acclimating slowly.
Having said all that, if the loaches have been in the tank for four weeks then they weren't subjected to any serious swing in those parameters most likely. I suppose during water changes there might be situations where the new water is radically different in gh, kh, and TDS, and if so then that could be a problem.
KarlTH has stated that he has successfully kept fish in a wide range of ph and even with swings of ph, but that fish are much more sensitive to sudden radical changes in gh, kh, and TDS.
The conditioner thing is certainly a possibilty. I use StressCoat, and I also have the API Bacterial Supplement, which comes in the same bottle. I may have mixed up the two the same way you did.
I guess my main concern would be with the death of 2 in one day, but it may just be coincidence. The first may have died for one reason, and the second one I may not have conditioned.
If I didn't condition, I hope I don't wake up to MORE dead fish, as I also have neons.
Good to know. If it turned out that they were super sensitive to pH, I would have to rehome the survivors. I've actually only had these guys for 2 weeks, the tank has been set up for 4.
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/231/51409.html?1136269597 here is something from another forum. i'm having trouble finding the original stuff that i read. sorry
At this point I think the best you can do is very carefully monitor your parameters and keep them pristine in order to avoid any further stress to your occupants.
Do as many water changes as needed to keep the water clean as a whistle.
I have used stress coat, and I think it's a good product, but I've seen so many posts, by the really experienced fishkeepers here, that sing the praises of Prime. I love that it detoxifies ammonia and nitrites and does this for about twentyfour hours, so it gives you time if you do find a spike.
In emergencies, of a water quality nature, you can dose up to five times the normal dose to detox the ammonia and/or nitrite spike. I've done this on several ocassions.
I had to rush out to work one morning, running late, after finding an unexpected spike of nitrites. I dumped a capful of Prime in the tank, which is the "five times the normal" emergency dose for a 10 gallon. My occupants were fine until I got home nine hours later, and then I did a water change.
I can't say enough about it. It has saved my fish's lives and my sanity on many ocassions
Do as many water changes as needed to keep the water clean as a whistle.
I have used stress coat, and I think it's a good product, but I've seen so many posts, by the really experienced fishkeepers here, that sing the praises of Prime. I love that it detoxifies ammonia and nitrites and does this for about twentyfour hours, so it gives you time if you do find a spike.
In emergencies, of a water quality nature, you can dose up to five times the normal dose to detox the ammonia and/or nitrite spike. I've done this on several ocassions.
I had to rush out to work one morning, running late, after finding an unexpected spike of nitrites. I dumped a capful of Prime in the tank, which is the "five times the normal" emergency dose for a 10 gallon. My occupants were fine until I got home nine hours later, and then I did a water change.
I can't say enough about it. It has saved my fish's lives and my sanity on many ocassions
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This brings up the additional question... should I get more kuhlis? If they are so sensitive, should I simply avoid them altogether? When I first was setting up this tank, I couldn't decide between corys or kuhlis. Should I go with corys? I am down to 4 kuhlis now, which is the minimum I've ever seen suggested as a group. I had been considering getting more, but if they are just going to die...
Hmm, I'll try to get up to Petco tomorrow and pick up some Prime. I've also heard the praises of it, and the detox effect could be useful in these kinds of situations.
By the way, thanks for all your help! I'm starting to feel a little better now. I was really upset to lose these guys, I really am trying to be a good owner.
You need to do more research. Maybe they are like neons and there is a "wait and see" period. With neons its usually three days. With Kuhlis, it might be different.
