Pond construction, from dreams to reality!

Thanks for the compliments & detailed responses! But Muske & Jennie get a :silly: for there koi answers! (Just playing!)
All this work and I can only have 2-3 koi? :( I have heard everything from 2-10 koi, nevermind the 15 the sales lady said but I thought it might be an average of those numbers not the lowest possible. Oh sad day! Several sources say most backyard koi don't usual get bigger then 24" in these small ponds so can't that be taken into account? I'm trying every angle I can here! :)

I do intend to upgrade the filter in the future, definitely no matter what I get. What kind of filter is undecided as of right now but whatever it may be would definitely make this WAY overfiltered. I'm thinking by next summer I will have additional filtration if not then by the next spring certainly.

I know everyone's experiences are different but my mother friend has a 1000g pond with 7 20"-23" kois and a 3ft channel catfish. Total filtration is only rated for about 2,500g! She has had no real problems and has had the fish for many years, she did upgrade the filter (to what I listed) within the past year though. Now I would NEVER stock that much in that size pond with that filtration but if she can do THAT I thought I could get away with a little more than 3 koi in my 2300g pond with filtration rated for 5000g with additional filtration on the way (and starting with baby fish)?

Please don't take this the wrong way I am not giving attitude I just thought I'd have more than 3 fish in my pond with all the extra work I put into it. :D

As far as the rock/retaining wall goes that might not happen now that we have thought about the facts (it will go over the sewer lines is the most important one).

A step right near the waterfall might be a good idea. A hungry critter might not be SO tempted if he has to stand at the waterfall and get extra wet. And trust me trying to get in & out of the pond right now is hard enough, I can't imagine doing it on a slippery liner & stepping over the rock edge!

The main thing holding me back on the rock/gravel in the bottom of the pond right now is the water volume lost. By the time I add shelves & rocks I will be back down to 1000 and only a small area that is actual 3'.

On to progress!! I thought I had a good day but after hearing you responses I am second guessing everything again. :irked: Well it is really starting to look like a pond, finally! And I think we might be about done for the winter, besides filling it up to protect the hole.

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BTW We need more pictures and details about YOUR pond Muske! :D It looks great!


Also isn't it bad to mix goldfish & koi because they cross breed and produce sterile hybrids? I am not looking to make a profit or show my fish but I don't wannt get stuck with tons of hybrid babies that no one will take either.
 
Don't get discouraged. Everytime you do a pond you learn something new, even the folks who have done many ponds! And a pond is pretty forgiving of changes, variations in stocking, etc. Much more so than an aquarium indoors. Heavy plantings allow heavier stocking, but koi are notorious plant eaters and destroyers, which nukes the whole heavy plantings idea. On the other hand, your basic pond comets and shubunkins come in some very beautiful patterns, get to a foot or so long, don't have near the filtration requirements of koi, don't destroy plantings...and are just as easily trained as koi (from my own experience--got 6 in June, and by August they were eating literally out of my hand, coming over to see me everytime I went by the pond).

I know you want koi, but I'd encourage you to take a look at some of the sarassa comets, commons and shubunkins before you make up your mind.

Oh, got going on this novel and almost forgot why I wanted to write in the first place...just a liner is slippery now...wait til you get a nice layer of slime on it--algae, BB, fish poo, and it will be downright treacherous to get in and out of without some kind of step, especially if you are hauling a water plant or filter or something like that. I have seen ponds where there is the rock 'lip' like you have planned, then bare walls, and a thin layer of gravel on the bottom. This way you keep the largest water volume possible, but have some traction on the bottom, and a good breeding ground for the BB. If you do put rock on the bottom, go for smooth stuff. Pea gravel is great, though some folk have problems with fish getting rocks stuck in their mouths. I have 7/8" drainage rock in the bottom of mine. Rounded, just big enough not to get sucked up, and looks nice, too. And most important, won't poke a hole in the liner when you step on it :)

Jen
 
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Bog filters work great in conjunction with mechanical filters. Here is some info.

http://www.nelsonwatergardens.com/data/resources/other/1_Bog%20Filter%20Construction.pdf

Pic of my pond with a bog filter up to the left:

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:perv: wow that is one awesome pond!
 
First off, the progress is great...don't start second guessing anything. Your doing a great job and the thoughtful planning will pay off for you later.

Second, 2-3" of gravel on the bottom is not going to displace 1300 gals., relax. In pics. 1 and 3, you can step the slope (between the shovel and wht. bucket) opposite the A/C w/no problems and would actually increase the footprint at the bottom a little. Starting on the lip of flat shelf that is there, go straight down 10-12" in the section of darker clay. Maybe even a little past that layer. That would leave a 4-6" shelve midway up the side. Again, from the lip of that flat shelf area, go straight down to the bottom. This would give you stairs to enter and exit the pond.

A rule I like w/Koi is 1000 gals. for the first fish, and 500 gals. each additional one. That way, they can reach there 30, 32, 36"+ size and be beasts in your pond. I would say 4 would be OK in your system. However, a couple koi and a bunch of goldies is a good look. I've got 1 koi and 25 goldfish plus a Albino Channel cat. I'm planning to get rid of my current Koi and get a High grade one next season, since the one I have know I bought thinking is was a Shubunkin. Still he is happy with the goldfish and have had no problems. The specs. on my pond is in my gallery. If you do get hybrids, there are plenty of people that have P-Bass and other big preds. that will take any feeders off your hands.

How's the water clarity w/lady that has 7 24 inchers?

I know every situation is different, but what works for some....

The retaining wall if made out of boulders, can be removed and rebuilt much easier than a block wall, should the need of some plumbing work be done. Literally roll them out of place and roll back when work is done.

Any upgrades in filtration might be addressed this fall/winter when the pond is not full. Right now you are ahead of the rest with 2X turnover and will be happy there. But, if you want a bog for instance, a seperate smaller skimmer might need to be installed now as to not have a pump in the pond down the line.

Did you buy underlayment or are you going to use carpet?

If you got/get underlayment, it is probally the same size as the liner. Since the pond is not going to be filled this year, I would use the underlayment as a sample/template for the liner and make sure you have maximised the pond size. There may even be enough slack to do a bog filter now....
 
Thanks! I am still considering shelves for rocks and an emergency step but I will (should anyways!) have a ladder for me to get in and out. I will definitely have stones on the very bottom of the pond at the very least.

I would love a bog pond but space & sunlight are the real issues here. I would have to wait till spring to see where the sun will actually hit.

I do like goldfish, a lot actually, especially comets & shubinkins but I like koi better. I am seriously considering going back to my original goldfish pond though. I am not discouraged...I am indecisive! :)

Ok, if I got like 10 small, under 4", kois (slowly added of course) I should be able to house them with my current setup till about 12" at which time I should be able to sex them and weed out a breedable group of 3-4. This way I get lots of activity while they are young (2-3 4" koi would kinda get lost in this pond), watch them grow up & I get to pick out good mature colors/patterns. And if worse came to worse and I could not part with ANY of them I would just have to upgrade the pond or build another one! :D

The underlayment is only 12' wide, I had to get 2 rolls.

The lady with the 7 koi & channel cat has VERY clear water and has never lost a fish, however it looks very overcrowded!

Another slow day at the pond, BTW I work on & off from 7am-7pm so I only get like 2-4 hours a day to work on the pond. Today we removed the red rocks from around the house because....we wanted to! I decided on a stone finally, Delaware river rock, it is a little smaller than I would like and has a lot of yellow tones but it was the closest I found to what I wanted! What is great about this is that it comes in many sizes so it can go around the edge of the pond, in the bottom of the pond and all around the pond too. Best part is $60 a ton! Much better than the $237 a ton bedminster granite boulders we were looking at!! Plus we got 10 extra stones too that we got to hand pick. They were FILTHY though, here are pictures of them almost dry after their bath.

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Growing out koi is a good idea. With them and some goldfish you will have plenty of activity. You might need to grow them a little larger since their true adult colors and patterns don't show til 12"+ or a couple of years.

The A/C looks to be in a spot for a nice bog.... Do you have a basement or crawl? If so, moving the AC unit to the otherside of the blue deck would be easy. And looking at the deck, it would then be nice to extend it along the house and out towards the pond.

Is the red rock lava rock? Might want to keep a wheelbarrel of it around since it makes for good starter media in the filter(placed in a mesh bag of course). You will hear many opinions on lava rock, mine included, that it clogs fast, which it does. It is good however to start the ponds bio and replaced down the road since there are many other, better, medias.

The boulders are great looking. Keep rinsing them off, this will only help with water clarity. Gravel can be rinsed off in the pond. Leave a section of liner open to place the pump. Wash the gravel, and any other rocks giong in the pond in place. The dirty water is then just pumped out to the lawn. The price for stone is so varied that I often use and recomend the cheaper stuff in the water since they will grow some algae and won't be able to tell the difference in stone in two years. The nice,(the cheap stuff is still very nice) more expensive stone can be used in and around the falls, along the edges, or for parts in the wall for a more aesthetic look.
 
I do have a basement but there is no where else to put the AC unit. I attached a quick sketch of my yard, mind you it is not to scale and a lot is missing, I ran out of area to draw so the whole the whole left and way back yard is missing. :) I am trying to work the bog in there somehow though!

Red rocks are not lava rocks just red gravel left over from the driveway. I wanted to pick up some type of easy transfer media to thrown into a friends pond but the bacteria dies during the winter doesn't it? For the most part anyways.

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