Prime and Test Kits

CatLover

CatLover

Rummy Nose Tetra Fanatic
Jan 4, 2006
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Texas
Hello, I have read lots of posts and done a lot of research, etc. but I am very confused regarding my ammonia tests. Can Prime cause an ammonia test to still read positive when Prime is used for chloramines? (detailed situation will follow in next post)

Thanks!
 
I have 2 tanks that have been cycled for over a year. I tested the 10 gallon tank (routine test) and discovered ammonia. The ammonia was less than 1 ppm. (using an AP test kit) So, I do an emergency water change about 25% Obviously I was very concerned because I hadn't seen ammonia in my tanks in so long. So, I tested the tank water after the change and the ammonia readings were dramatically worse. So, then I test and read ammonia in my tap water. So, I really freaked out! (I had the same issue in the 29 gallon tank) So, I do a lot of research and discover that my local lakes have "turned" and that the water company has used chloramines in my water. (supposedly this is the issue) Well, I was using stress coat to dechlorinate and I didn't realize for a long time that it still left the ammonia behind. So, I then used tetra AquaSafe which supposedly neutralizes ammonia. I still get ammonia readings. (In the meantime I am totally freaking out and doing massive water changes every day) I changed out filter media- which I now realize is one of the dumbest things I have ever done.

So, all this started June 20. I ordered a bottle of Prime and added the appropriate dose to my tanks yesterday. Ammonia is still reading with an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit. (which I think tests both unionized and ionized ammonia.) My ph in both tanks is about 7.2

Is it reading ammonia that is still toxic?

In the approximately 2 weeks since this has started I haven't had any ammonia poisoning casualties and fish appear normal. I have cut way back on their feeding and I think that they are hungry. (they haven't had anything past 2 days and very little before that since this started) I want to feed them because I know that they must be hungry, but I don't want to make it worse if the ammonia is still toxic.

I am wondering if possibly it is reading ionized ammonia because I have done so many water changes and cleaned filters and substrate and probably killed all my biofilter! so, the ionized ammonia is not gone because maybe my biofilter can't handle it.

Or, might there still be toxic unionized ammonia in my tank?

If you know or even have a clue as to what the issue might be please :help:

Thanks so much. Sorry for the long post, if I went through every water change, etc that I have done since this started, you would be here all night if you read it.

Thanks! I'm sorry if this made no since, but I am so worried!
 
Prime detoxifies ammonia, it doesn't make it dissapear. The ionized form of ammonia is not harmful to fish. The deionized form is. Prime makes deionized ammonia into ionized ammonia so that it won't harm your fish while it is being taken care of by the cycling process. Turning all your ammonia into into the ionized variety isn't a long-term solution in case you were wondering.

All standard ammonia tests can't differentiate between the kinds of ammonia; they both show as the same. So technically you could have 5.0ppm ammonia and have fish still doing fine with about 18 drops of Prime per gallon. Again, not reccommended. The only way I know of to tell the difference between the two kinds of ammonia is to get a SeaChem Ammonia Alert. It is a little plastic rectangle that you stick to the inside of your tank. The dot in the center changes color based on how much toxic ammonia is in the tank. They are around 7 bucks and can usually be found at a Petsmart. I have one on my 10 gallon. You can see it in the pic under the thermometer.
 
Now that you mention it, I have a seachem deal like the one under your thermometer in each tank. They both show a color that is somewhere between safe and alert in the little dot.

See, I am debating whether to do another massive water change or if I would just be removing more of my beneficial bacteria by doing that. I have been using RO water (with some spring water to restore minerals) and doing MASSIVE water changes and vacuuming. My plants are doing great and my fish appear okay. My betta has been doing his little food begging thing like crazy the whole time and he is driving me nuts because I know he is hungry. The contents of the tanks are in my signature. I researched that if I keep the ph low, ammonia is less stressful to the fish and that more ammonia ionizes. I'm not sure though. So, it is at 7.2 steady. (the RO water and spring water seem to really help bring it down- my tap water has a very high ph) But, I am not using tap water right now.

Thank you SO MUCH for replying! Do you know how many ppm those seachem wheel things translate to?
 
The colors are relatively low level. I think the max is still below 1.0ppm. So if you are somewhere between yellow and light green, you are still pretty much ok. You won't be taking out any beneficial bacteria with water changes, so don't worry about that. They live in the gravel and in the filter. The pH cutoff for the ammonia toxicity is 6.7 I think.

Bottom line, if your tanks are nicely cycled, putting in the tap water as long as your treat it correctly with Prime shouldn't be a problem. I know RO water alone isn't good for the tank, and bottled stuff can get expensive.
 
I guess I could change and just not vacuum.

Thanks so much for answering my questions!
 
Vaccing doesn't remove bacteria either. Not vaccing will just lead to more waste in the tank and more ammonia. Definitely vac.
 
Okay, thank you very much!
 
***quote***So, I do a lot of research and discover that my local lakes have "turned" and that the water company has used chloramines in my water***quote***
Contact your local water company for a water quality report make sure if they are adding more chlor to your water that you fill your tank with a bucket and treat the water before it enters your tank so that you don’t kill off large amounts of your beneficial bacteria


I’ve used prime with my AP test kit for over a year with not one issue
 
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CatLover said:
Hello, I have read lots of posts and done a lot of research, etc. but I am very confused regarding my ammonia tests. Can Prime cause an ammonia test to still read positive when Prime is used for chloramines? (detailed situation will follow in next post)

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I know I'm jumping in a little late on this, but perhaps I can atleast impart some general knowledge that may be of help.

When prime breaks the chloramine bond it detoxifies the chlorine and the NH3(ammonia) and the NH3 is rendered non-toxic but still available to your beneficial bacteria for processing.
Yes, it is detectable by most testkits, liquid reagent or dipstrip.
One thing to note here is that 'Nessler' based reagent kits will give wildy inaccurate test results after using most chloramine/ammonia detoxifiers, to get a accurate reading of detoxified NH3 you must use a 'Salicylate' based kit or a dipstrip type*.
Because of all this it is necessary in a tank that may be experiencing cycling problems to test after water changes to determine non-toxic levels and then re-test often to monitor for increases of toxic.

Now here comes the kicker...
Let us jump beyond ionized(NH3)/deionized(NH4) ammonia...
Do you know that PH and temp directly affect the toxicity of NH3?
The lower the PH/temp the less toxic the NH3, this is a variable factor depending on must how much (ppm) NH3 is present.
Here is a link with toxicity charts, http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html

*I do not recommend dipstrip test, they are IMO not as reliable/accurate as liquid reagents.
Some detoxifiers will affect the acuuracy of 'Salicylate' kits.
 
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