If they are doing 25-50 percent water changes and if the water temp is too different than what is in the tank, it is actually quite possible. Especially for rams, with them being more sensitive than most fish.
problem with german blue rams and golden rams
- Thread starter cbarath
- Start date
If they are doing 25-50 percent water changes and if the water temp is too different than what is in the tank, it is actually quite possible. Especially for rams, with them being more sensitive than most fish.
Hi Jannika,
Thanks for the post on the info and your thoughts on the matter. With the Asian imports on any breed of fish the issues with medications, hormones, color enhancement, steroids of sorts and so many other things they do when and before they ship its no wonder any fish we get make it very well. These are some of the reasons I got into breeding specific fish. The gbr's being one of them. The one thing for sure is any Asian GBR's are far from wild caught fish as the true home for these fish is central/south America. Maybe this has become the whole issue. My original breeding stock came from south America and I've gradually brought them up into water conditions more to our areas.
In the case of the OP here. I honestly think that the tank isn't mature enough. These fish need s mature tank to be introduced to. Id even recommend keeping them in WTF for some time. They are very easy to get ich. If the OP missed any ich on the fish it can kill them very fast. Of course it would also make a difference where the fish came from, how established they were before bringing them home among other things.
A 2 degree temp difference with 25 to 50 % water change won't be an issue. But 5 to 10 degrees and more will be detrimental to them. But if your topping off a tank with a gallon of water it doesn't matter. But I'd classify anything more then 25% a larger volume.
hi all ide like to say thank you so much for the help, when i signed up for this forum i did not expect this much feedback. alright so heres the dealio after reading everyones comments. after several failing attempts with having a planted tank i do not have sufficient lighting to support many of the plants i like so at the moment i only have 4 smaller live plants so thats probably one reason my nitrates are 0. the tank has been set up since christmas this year, so im pretty sure its cycled enough for rams. after hearing the gas pockets though, thats the only thing i could see being my problem because it happens WHILE gravel vacuuming that they get stressed out, and i have never stirred or moved my substrate, i was told not to by my LFS. i do my water changes every sunday, how regularly should i be stirring or moving my gravel around to prevent/remove these "gas pockets" and how would i go about doing it
Hi and welcome to the forum. Sometimes there is conflicting views but its what helps us all learn new things. I know there might be a ton info to take in.
First things first. Your rams need lots of cover. Plants and drift wood and rock or other things to help them feel secure. If not they stress and things can happen. This is a must. Maybe the first thing to do is to get your tank in order as far as plants and decor. Then work out the issues with the fish. What other fish are they housed with?
In your case I'm doubting its a gas pocket issue but its possible. I'm also betting your zero nitrates is an improper reading. What test are you using? Have you calibrated it? If using strips they are very inaccurate. If using the API liquid test kit you must shake bottle 2 til your arm falls off. Really if you don't shake it enough it gives a bad reading. How often do you do water changes? Where did you get your GBR's? When are you testing your water before or after a water change? Less plants to fish ratio should mean more nitrates.
A lot of things you will have to nail down and know to make this work. Have you noticed any small spots on them or is their bellies sucked in? And male to female ratios? The gbr are monogamous. Just some things I feel and I'm sure others will to help you figure out your issues and make this work.
Please feel free to give me a shout if I cam help.
I have done alot of research on GBR's, and the two the i had were male/female. the gold rams are much harder to sex, and i am unsure which sex they were. however, the two pairs generally stuck together so im assuming 2 male 2 female. the GBR that is left is the male, and im pretty sure the gold ram is also a male. I have experienced fin rot on my angelfish, and ick on a black molly. 100% positive they do not have either of those.
there is a picture of my tank.
here is a list of tank mates:
2 yoyo loachs - approx 2.5 inch
3 angelfish - approx 3 inch
1 clown loach - approx 3 inch
1 GBR - 1 inch
1 gold ram - 1 inch
1 senegal bichir - very young im assuming, maybe 2.5 inch
1 khuli loach - 3 ich
1 orange banded loach - 2 inch
I am using the api freshwater master test kit, and i havnt been shaking the living bejeesus out of it but i will tomorow night when i do my test. i do water changes every sunday and water tests every wendesday. my levels have been consistantly good for the last 2 months. if more plants are required, do they need to be evenly placed everywhere in the tank, or could i keep them in the corner where i currently have the pink coral decoration/bubbles (which will be moved). and as i said previously, i dont disturb my gravel, i never have once i was told not to thats why i was thinking gas bubble because gravel vacuuming is the only thing that remotely moves it and lately i have been pushing harder on it to clean deeper down. i really do think that is it. none of my fish have ever chased/hassled my rams, they seem very happy roaming free in the tank because the loachs all hide and the only thing out normally is the angel fish which are at the top
there is a picture of my tank.
here is a list of tank mates:
2 yoyo loachs - approx 2.5 inch
3 angelfish - approx 3 inch
1 clown loach - approx 3 inch
1 GBR - 1 inch
1 gold ram - 1 inch
1 senegal bichir - very young im assuming, maybe 2.5 inch
1 khuli loach - 3 ich
1 orange banded loach - 2 inch
I am using the api freshwater master test kit, and i havnt been shaking the living bejeesus out of it but i will tomorow night when i do my test. i do water changes every sunday and water tests every wendesday. my levels have been consistantly good for the last 2 months. if more plants are required, do they need to be evenly placed everywhere in the tank, or could i keep them in the corner where i currently have the pink coral decoration/bubbles (which will be moved). and as i said previously, i dont disturb my gravel, i never have once i was told not to thats why i was thinking gas bubble because gravel vacuuming is the only thing that remotely moves it and lately i have been pushing harder on it to clean deeper down. i really do think that is it. none of my fish have ever chased/hassled my rams, they seem very happy roaming free in the tank because the loachs all hide and the only thing out normally is the angel fish which are at the top
When did you experience the Ich on the Molly? and the fin Rot on the Angel? One thing to remember with Ich. If one fish has it its quite probable that ALL the fish have it. Ich can harvest itself in the gills where you can not physically see it. As well as Ich has several life cycles it goes through. you can also be sure that if one fish has it that its in the water, on the plants, decorations, substrate and anything else. It will remain that way as long as their is a host to keep the life cycle of Ich going. And Rams are VERY easily effected by this and the stress it brings.
GBR's are easy to sex. Females get Pink Bellies and their a little more plump as well as the black spot that GBR's get in females will have the blue coloration on the Black spot where the males dont. Males can also be sexed due to a V-shaped tail fin and the elongated second ray that is in the dorsal fin.
Gold Rams/Bolivians are harder to sex but have some of the same things about fin differences BUT the only real true way is to look at the ventral. The Female Ventral is bigger and linger and round in shape. Like a tube hanging down while the male ventral has an angled cut to the shape. Its not full and its smaller.
Looking at the picture of your Tank, the first thing would be is lack of cover. Rams need a more natural look with Plants drift wood and flat stones and caves. This is what helps them be secure. So much open space with the other fish and everything that passes by or goes in the tank creates them stress. So get TONS of plants in there. Get some better more natural structure. Even things like a clay flower pot half buried on its side helps as a cave surround it with plants. These fish need that. Also realize that having 3 angels and 2 different breeds of rams May not work. Especially with the lack of cover. Housing rams with Angels and discus can work but they need the cover. When you house rams you have to centralize the tank around them due to the stress they can get from other fish.
As far as testing your water. yes Shake the crud out of the Nitrate Test kit bottle number 2. Follow the instructions word for word. Do 10 drops of number one and shake. Then shake the crud out of number 2 for 2 and a half minutes. Bottle number 2 has a powder in it that settles and when it does it sticks to the bottom very well. So you have to shake very well. Id also test your water the day before water change. OR test the water for Nitrates Just before you do a water change. Reason is this will give you your max value you reach before you do a water change. It will tell you how much is really building up. And Calibrate your test kit.
Plants can be placed where ever. BUT match your plants to your lights. If you dont have great lighting do a low light tank. Make sure its a plant bulb. If you can get better lights. If you have or do better lights you may need to fertilize. Rams come from a planted environment.
As far as Vacuuming your substrate..... In a planted tank No, You dont normally do that. BUT looking at your tank you dont have plants or enough. You need to load it up with good plants. The roots help keep the gassy pockets to form. But you want the Mulm in the substrate as the plants will use it as a food source. In my tanks I never vac the substrate. I only skim the surface and let it pick up the detritus sitting in top the substrate. If you didnt have loaches id recommend running MTS in the substrate as MTS snails help stir up the substrate and eat detritus and keep pockets from forming as well. Is it possible it was a gas pocket? Could be... Maybe.. But so many other things going on to fix first IMHO. Currently Ive got 8 breeding pairs of GBR and 4 breeding pairs of Bolivian/Gold and 5 breeding pairs of Electric blues. They can be managed and done with success, just have to provide them with what they need.
GBR's are easy to sex. Females get Pink Bellies and their a little more plump as well as the black spot that GBR's get in females will have the blue coloration on the Black spot where the males dont. Males can also be sexed due to a V-shaped tail fin and the elongated second ray that is in the dorsal fin.
Gold Rams/Bolivians are harder to sex but have some of the same things about fin differences BUT the only real true way is to look at the ventral. The Female Ventral is bigger and linger and round in shape. Like a tube hanging down while the male ventral has an angled cut to the shape. Its not full and its smaller.
Looking at the picture of your Tank, the first thing would be is lack of cover. Rams need a more natural look with Plants drift wood and flat stones and caves. This is what helps them be secure. So much open space with the other fish and everything that passes by or goes in the tank creates them stress. So get TONS of plants in there. Get some better more natural structure. Even things like a clay flower pot half buried on its side helps as a cave surround it with plants. These fish need that. Also realize that having 3 angels and 2 different breeds of rams May not work. Especially with the lack of cover. Housing rams with Angels and discus can work but they need the cover. When you house rams you have to centralize the tank around them due to the stress they can get from other fish.
As far as testing your water. yes Shake the crud out of the Nitrate Test kit bottle number 2. Follow the instructions word for word. Do 10 drops of number one and shake. Then shake the crud out of number 2 for 2 and a half minutes. Bottle number 2 has a powder in it that settles and when it does it sticks to the bottom very well. So you have to shake very well. Id also test your water the day before water change. OR test the water for Nitrates Just before you do a water change. Reason is this will give you your max value you reach before you do a water change. It will tell you how much is really building up. And Calibrate your test kit.
Plants can be placed where ever. BUT match your plants to your lights. If you dont have great lighting do a low light tank. Make sure its a plant bulb. If you can get better lights. If you have or do better lights you may need to fertilize. Rams come from a planted environment.
As far as Vacuuming your substrate..... In a planted tank No, You dont normally do that. BUT looking at your tank you dont have plants or enough. You need to load it up with good plants. The roots help keep the gassy pockets to form. But you want the Mulm in the substrate as the plants will use it as a food source. In my tanks I never vac the substrate. I only skim the surface and let it pick up the detritus sitting in top the substrate. If you didnt have loaches id recommend running MTS in the substrate as MTS snails help stir up the substrate and eat detritus and keep pockets from forming as well. Is it possible it was a gas pocket? Could be... Maybe.. But so many other things going on to fix first IMHO. Currently Ive got 8 breeding pairs of GBR and 4 breeding pairs of Bolivian/Gold and 5 breeding pairs of Electric blues. They can be managed and done with success, just have to provide them with what they need.
i agree i dont think you are testing right. you need a heavily ppanted tank ti have 0 nitrates
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
I knew pairing angel fish and rams could have been a problem, and I'm willing to sell/trade/move my angels if need be because I really love these rams. How many plants are we talking here that I need? I currently only have 4. And my lighting isn't the greatest (42" powerglo t8 bought last weekend) and also, I have many malaysian trumpet snals hidden in the gravel. Not sure how many anymore, seeing as they breed a lot. I was told they were my loachs favorite food, however I have not found 1 empty shell so I don't believe that anymore. As for the ick, that was several months ago in a completly diferent tank so I'm 99% sure they donhave that. My angels had fin rot about 3 months ago, and are still showing 0 signs of that as well
