Proper Fluval 404 tray filling-Nitrate issue!!

travelinman1969

travelinman1969

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Oct 23, 2003
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I have a fluval 404 that I have been getting mixed answers on the proper way to fill the trays. Since I've had it I have been adding the carbon in the bottom, nitra-zorb in the 2nd (more on this in a minute), biological rocks in the 3rd and filter floss in the top basket. A buddy of mine told me the filter floss should go in the bottom and nitra-zorb in the top, putting the carbon in 2 and rocks in 3. I'm soooo confused.

On the nitrate problem. This has been ongoing for about a month. A gazillion water changes later, and using the nitra-zorb, for the past month has not helped. Well over 140 ppm. I tried chemical nitrate removers also, to no avail. I got 2 more nitra-zorb packs today and was going to add them to the fluval. I have a Tetratec PF500 that is running straight carbon, so I figure I can add these packs to the fluval and remove the carbon. Each pack is supposed to be good for 55 gallons and I have a 150, so I figured the extra packs would help out. What do you all think, short of adding another canister?
 
What all is in the tank?

I'm not familiar with canisters, but the normal order is to have mechanical filtration, then biological filtration, then any chemical filtration. This way, the solids are removed, then the liquid wastes, then any extras. I don't use chemical filtration, so can't comment on the nitra-zorb. Have you tried adding any plants? Even floating plants like frogbit, duckweed, wisteria, water sprite, or hornwort will help reduce nitrates. I use duck weed in most of my lightly planted tanks--it's easy to scoop off of the surface to remove from the system. Some fish prevent the use of plants, but duckweed and frogbit can be added to most all tanks, even with fish that eat it.
 
This is the 150 gallon with the 4 oscars, 1 arowana, 2 plecos and 2 balas. We talked about a month ago about the possibility of it being overstocked, but they are still kinda small, except the male tiger oscar, the arowana, and the 2 big plecos. I added some sort of sword plants from petsmart, but they are about dead. Turning yellow, plus the plecos seems to be eating them, never see them actually eating them but the ends defenitly look eaten. There are no other good pet stores left in the area.
 
Size is not the only factor to consider in stocking. Waste production plays a huge role, and all of those fish are giant waste producing machines. The high nitrates are indicative of this. How often do you clean your mechanical filtration and the substrate?
 
The most effective cures for high nitrates are still water changes. Beyond that, reducing the bioload does a good job also.

I rinse the mechanical weekly, or twice weekly in high load tanks.

I vacuum the gravel fully weekly in non-planted tanks. How much gravel do you have? It can be an excellent nitrate reservoir.
 
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I clean the Pf500 as soon as the water starts to run over the top of the back cartriges, about every 5-7 days. There are 4 cartriges, I change 2 per change. I change the back ones and move the front ones to the back. New ones go in front. I've been changing the fluval every 5 days so I can recharge the Nitra-zorb. I replace the carbon every month, and floss every change. I haven't changed the rocks since I owned the tank. Rinse em off once a month. I still think the nitra-zorb is going to be my best defense until I can find someone to take some of these fish off my hands or get another canister. But at what point is too much on filtering? Is it possible to over filter a tank? But my main question still isn't getting answered. Oriongirl, were you saying I should have the rocks before the nitra-zorb? I'm thinking that the way I have the fluval setup may be my problem.
 
Originally posted by travelinman1969
...., but I have an undergravel filter.
Click to expand...
How "old" is this 'undergravel filter?' This could be the problem.. I would not use an 'undergravel filter.'
 
Clean it before it gets to the point of running over. By the time it is that clogged, the bacteria have been busy breaking down ammonia and nitrites. Removing this waste before it breaks down will help--but not solve the overall problem. You may want to add an prefilter that's easy to remove and clean, and plan on doing this every other day or so.
 
What's wrong with the undergravel? I've had it in there since the tank was started. I cleaned the tubes last week and replaced the airstones. I can see under the undergravel and there is a bit of sediment there but nothing compared to when I vacuum the tank. One thing I did notice today was the low amount of waste that was in the gravel. I've gotten away from feeding them live food and stated feeding them shrimp, chicken, peas, carrots, etc. The only thing I really picked up today was the waste on top of the gravel.
 
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