I have a 10 gallon tank that has been running for about... 2.5 weeks now. Im cycling it with a pair of balloon bodied mollies. They had babies, and ive been keeping them in a netted cage in my tank. about 5 days ago they started dieing, and i realized that my nitrite/nitrates were spiking, as well as amonia (which wasnt very high though). I figure this to be the cause. Anyway, around that time one of my fish came down with ich. I did a 50% water change the first day, and treated it, and each day after that I did a 20% water change and medicated them. I plan to continue for a while longer to be sure its gone completly. So now my question: The fish that had ich is now acting wierd. He is always hanging out on the bottom in the back of the tank. Also, his eyes seem to each have something like a clear "pimple" over them, almost like an ich spot on top of a bubble over the eye. Im wondering what might be causing this, and what i can do about it. As of today my Amonia is 0, ph is 7.3, nitrates are 20, and nitrites are about 2. Im about to do another 20-30% water chance and medicate them again.. Any input is appreciated
Quick question...
- Thread starter nvan
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You're doing about all you can. You can up the ater changes to 50% once a day, and if anything spikes, it is safe to do to 50% water changes back to back. Cycling with fish is very stressful to them and it opens the door for things like Ich, fungus, bacteria, infections and disease. The one in the back may recover, but anytime I have seen a molly get bad enough to hide and become they usually perish within a week. Sorry you're having to deal with that. Next time, I recommend trying a fishless cycle. There is information on how to do that in a Sticky thread at the top of the Freshwater Newbie Forum titled, Cycle. Good luck!
Alrighty. So the eye thing isnt popeye or anything? Also, if the point of cycling is to get the amonia to spike, then the nitrates to spike and whatnot, wouldnt water changing mess with the cycling? or is it that the bacteria are already built up? Basically, if my nitrates are spiking, and i do a water change/add stress coat and bring them down, wont they just have to spike again before they finally drop down?
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You said there was a growth on the eye. pop eye is actually the eye protruding from the fish abnormally, not a growth, so that rules out pop eye. And the point of cycling is to build the beneficial bacteria. The ideal situation is fishless cycling, as it is quicker in that you can allow the toxins to spike because there are no fish in there. With fish, water changes become necessary because the fish will die in water that is high in ammonia or nitrites or nitrates if they remain in it too long. Sort of defeats the purpose of cycling to kill the fish because when they die and the ammonia levels drop and the nitrites drop, the bacteria die off as they have no food source. So, during a fishy cycle, most folks recommend that you do a 50% water change everyday to keep the toxins down. Trust me, they're still there and you will still cycle.nvan said:
Let's just say theoretically you were able to remove all ammonia and nitrites from your tank(which isn't likely with 50% daily water changes) the fish are still in the tank, still releasing ammonia through their gills, still producing waste. So, the bacteria still have food. The bacteria even themselves out. Based upon how much waste the fish produce you will grow the appropriate size bacterial colony.
The other big disadvantage to a fishy cycle is that once your tank is "cycled" it is only cycled for your current bioload. So, you have to add fish in limited numbers and spaced out over a longer period since you have to allow the bacteria to "catch up" to the new fish and adding to many is just like cycling all over again. Whereas, with a fishless cycle you have built up a very sizeable bacterial colony and this allows you to add a full (not overstocked, but well stocked) bioload to your tank as soon as it is cycled.
Anyway, yes, daily water changes for now so those fish can cycle your tank.
People's opinions vary as far as the treatment for a secondary infection that may or may not be there. Personally, I feel fish get stressed big time by the meds and I think it's better to treat them when you know they have something. Stress can kill fish as sure as a secondary infection. You'll know your cycle is complete when you see detectable ammonia and nitrites return to zero in 24 hours without doing a water change. Give it time, like 4-6 weeks.
Thanks for the help Harrlock. Just got home, the one mollie was sitting in the back, but as soon as i came by he started swimming around. The things are still over his eye. I guess ill just continue with water changes and ich treatment for a while. I really hope he makes it, hes a very cool mollie. Bright orange, with shiney blue spots on his fins. Anyway, from what i gather, i should continue doing 50% water cahnges every day untill ich treatment is done. After this, should i still do 50% water changes untill my tank is cycled, or maybe lower it to 20-30% water changes every day after the treatment is done? I dont want to over-do the water changes if that can have an ill effect on the fish... I figure the levels are all good, since my one last little fry is still alive and well.
Water changes won't hurt your fish. It's actually beneficial to them for their tank water to remain close to their "source" water (your tap) because it reduces stress when water changes are necessary. Let's just use a tank that gets only monthly water changes as an example.
The water ages in the tank and its chemistry starts to change. The fish, since this is a gradual change, don't really mind. For fish, change is a stressor, but constancy is good, and a gradual change feels like a constant. So after a month, this water is very different from that which comes directly from your tap. If you do a 50% water change now, this will stress the fish. They were used to that old water and you just took half of it away and added this new stuff. Let's also figure that in that month's time, the water company changed how they treat the water just a little bit because the weather was warming up and more detectable "bugs" were in the water. Now that water is surely different from what those fish were used to and you just forced them into a bigger change.
If you look at from the standpoint of weekly or bi-weekly (er, upon re-reading I am uncertain if bi-weekly means every two weeks or twice a week... I meant twice a week for clarification) water changes (a lot of folks prefer these methods) the water from the tap hasn't changed all that much. The water company might have made some changes, but it is nothing compared to what they could do in a month. Also, the water in the tank isn't that different from source, so the fish are still used to it, so adding the new water and taking away half of the old is more in line with a gradual change. Fish are less stressed, have better immune system because of it and are a lot less likely to have problems rom parasites, fungus or bacteria. Frequent water changes are definitely the way to go.
Just keep on following the direction of the Ich treatment you are using since yuo've already started with it. I cannot say for sure if it is Ih on the eye, since I can't see the fish, but since Ich was in the tank, it could be. Good luck, and I hope that explained the water change thing better.
The water ages in the tank and its chemistry starts to change. The fish, since this is a gradual change, don't really mind. For fish, change is a stressor, but constancy is good, and a gradual change feels like a constant. So after a month, this water is very different from that which comes directly from your tap. If you do a 50% water change now, this will stress the fish. They were used to that old water and you just took half of it away and added this new stuff. Let's also figure that in that month's time, the water company changed how they treat the water just a little bit because the weather was warming up and more detectable "bugs" were in the water. Now that water is surely different from what those fish were used to and you just forced them into a bigger change.
If you look at from the standpoint of weekly or bi-weekly (er, upon re-reading I am uncertain if bi-weekly means every two weeks or twice a week... I meant twice a week for clarification) water changes (a lot of folks prefer these methods) the water from the tap hasn't changed all that much. The water company might have made some changes, but it is nothing compared to what they could do in a month. Also, the water in the tank isn't that different from source, so the fish are still used to it, so adding the new water and taking away half of the old is more in line with a gradual change. Fish are less stressed, have better immune system because of it and are a lot less likely to have problems rom parasites, fungus or bacteria. Frequent water changes are definitely the way to go.
Just keep on following the direction of the Ich treatment you are using since yuo've already started with it. I cannot say for sure if it is Ih on the eye, since I can't see the fish, but since Ich was in the tank, it could be. Good luck, and I hope that explained the water change thing better.
I hope so too. Cloudy Eye can be caused by Ich, so that seems the most likely as you said you terated for it. Just for the sake of being thorough, let me add cloudy eye can also be a symptom of Fish TB, bacterial infections, fungus and Velvet. Are there any other symptoms at all aside from lethargy and the cloudy eye? I know the lethargy is going, so that's a positive sign. How about any weight loss? White stringy poop?