Sick fish. Help. Undergravel filter the culprit ?

jennfier

..o0o..o0o..
Aug 22, 2006
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SW Ohio
www.aquariacentral.com
So I was having a nice chat with the guy at the lfs (this is a good lfs, only deals with fish) because I've been having problems. One of the things he said was that I need to clean my undergravel filter about every other year (I never did and it's been set up for about 4 years). I have noticed a gazillion microscopic bubbles slowly rising to the top of the tank, never figured out why. He said some bad cases, people find jelly-like gunk on the bottom of the gravel plate. Stuff like that could all of a sudden kill off all the healthy fish, because the it's reached a deadly level. So, I did what he recommended. I stuck my gravel cleaner tube (sans head) tightly into the undergravel rigid tubing (with head removed) and the water which came out (which he said should be nasty) is really quite clean (I clean my tank 20% 2x/week). So now what ? He says most people don't use undergravel filters anymore. Does that mean my 40g can survive on just 1 biowheel penguin 330? I'm tempted to take up the undergravel filters part by part but will that stir up bad gasses that'll be too much for my fish ?

Problems:
1. 1 new M molly, intro last week, started out agressive (so I put him in breeder trap for 2 days, released him, was tamer but did still chase a couple fish for another day, ate voraciously, very active) but is now hiding and acting weird (vertical walking on nose); not eating much if any at all.
2. F molly, premature labor a few days ago, really weak still, eats little, walks around on tail at about 45-75 degree angle. Very strange spine curvature. Did she break something ? Lfs store guy said he had one like that before who never recovered its 'posture' but lived for 2 years more. She developed a white cottony spot on tail a few days ago.
3. Old goldfish fraying tail bloody edges started at same time as cottony spot. (I know they're not compatible w/ the mollies now. Didn't know before. Gonna get new 20g tank for her)

What I've done:
1. 8 tsp aquarium salt currently in water (40g).
2. 2 days ago, took out filter catridge w/ carbon & used parasite clear (i know, i panicked and it was the only thing i had in my old fish junk box) and it was close to midnight. never again.) cottony spot smaller nx day, now all gone. Goldfish fraying tail stopped deteriorating. Bloody streaks shrinking.
3. I changed 25% of water yesterday AM. Put biowheel filter catridges back in.
4. After speaking with lfs guy, I cleaned undergravel filters (all 4) at about midnight last night. That caused about another 30-35% water change. Replaced salt, dechlorinator and used Pimafix (smelly stuff). Took carbon cartridges out.

Q:
1. Did I kill off all good bacteria ? Will the cycle start anew and harm current fish ? Will the bacteria on the filter catridge die off if not in tank for as long as 1 week, if that's how long it needs to treat with Pimafix? I got Melafix too.
2. Goldfish looks great (she's about 4-5 years old, went from 1-2" when bought to 6" (8-9" with tail). Lfs says she may just be old and more susceptible to illness.
3. If the cottony fungal spot is gone and goldfish tail stopped fraying, can I stop treatment now ?
4. M molly is hiding, not eating, not active. Vertcle nose down. Any ideas ?

Oh yea, lfs tested my water. Everything in normal range. Nitrate and ph is in high end of normal which he says is ok if I keep up water change.
 
Wow, lots of questions!

On the topic of your UGF, how often and deep do you do gravel Vacs? If you are pushing the tube in deep to the gravel and it is coming up clear, I wouldn't think you have an issue with it.

I worry about your statement that water parameters are fine, in the high end of normal. DId they use a liquid test kit or test strips? Test strips are not reliable.

Please get a liquid test kit, like APs', and post your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels here.

Is your UGF powered by an air stone or power head? In my opinion, you are under filtered and have a very messy large goldfish in there.
 
I gravel vac 2x a week, each time on 1 side of the aquarium only. I push the vac really deep until it hits the UGF plate and usually get reddish gunk in the beginning until it's mostly clear (right about when I hit 25% water gone).

Nitrite 0 (slightest tinge of lavendar but water in tube very clear)
Nitrate 40 (maybe 50-60, a tad darker than 40 on chart).
Ammonia 0
pH at least 7.4 (going to LFS for High range pH test kit)
(they used a strip at the store. I bought the AP liquid test kits yesterday)

UGF is powered with power head. Penguin 330 is supposed to be good for 70 gallons. I have 40 gallons and I change water 2x /week. Is it because of the big goldfish that this would be considered under filtered ? I will post pH as soon as I get back from LFS.

M Molly I think won't be long on this earth. Don't know if I should euthanize. Don't want other fish to eat him if he dies when I'm not here. :(
 
Well, the power head helps, but for me you are are a little low on filtration, others may say you are fine. I know that is not a big help. I never put deep faith in the manufacturers capabilities of their filters. THere flow claims/sizing are usually about half in reality of what they claim.

Your nitrates are higher than I like, I prefer 20 or less on a consistent basis.

When you vac 1 side of the gravel, you do put the tube in various areas, letting it suck until running clear? I kind of got the feeling that you stuck it in one spot until the water change was complete? You are not just cleaning gunk out from under the plates but cleaning all the gravel, much as you would run the vac over the whole carpet. Don't mean to sound odd, but guess I am reading your post oddly.
 
I stick the vac all over the place, pretty evenly. I usually don't vac under driftwood and decorations much -- usually only move them to vac 1-2x a month unless I see a lot of poop floating up when I disturb the gravel. I suppose I should put in some chemicals to lower the nitrates ? If so, what is recommended ?

Actually, I may not have answered you correctly on the airstone vs power head question. The UGF is hooked up to an air pump. Is that a powerhead ? I have a feeling that's airstone. Sorry.
 
Sounds like your technique is good on the gravel vac, must have been my comprehension, sorry. :cool:

If your UGF is powered just by airstones, I think a small power head would be better for the bio-load you have; but then again a RUGF is best, but that is another thread.

To lower nitrates, all you need to do is a water change, no chemicals needed.

People who have the issue he described with UGFs usually are not gravel vac as required, or enough, coupled with overfeeding.

New molly...did you QT in a seperate tank first? You may have just brought something in if you did not and you could just have a bad fish genetically and be experiencing physical damage from the establishment of pecking orders.

Not sure if your meds affect the bacteria level, watch your parameters and do water changes as necessary.
 
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