Signs of a sick cichlid?

[steakman]

Hi, all
I have this nagging question here, and I've searched every where but found no clear answer for it.
Would you guys share your experience about this subject?
Thanks in advance,
Steakman.

- I have about 20 cichlids of all kind in a 90 gallon tank. They're range from 2-4 inch long. They all eat like pigs, and exercise like normal (chasing one another every now and then). They don't fight seriously, just a nudge here and there. I feed them 2-3 times a day for a very minimum amount, like everyone gets a bite or 2 and that's it every feeding time. No extra food fall to the bottom of the tank unscathed.

- All of the sudden, a fish looks super healthy, starts to slow down, stops going to the top to fight for it's meal. Then I see him less and less (hiding in caves). It lasted no more than 2-3 days, and dies. I could not find any white spot, fraying fins, or parasite of any kind. The color, the scales, the fins, the body shape look very perfect.

- I also have a blue acara around 4 inch long, started acting weird about 4-5 days ago (hiding in the dark area of the tank, and getting very jumpy seeing the sight of me ... like I am a monster of the river ... ). She still comes up and picks a bite here and there but not very serious about eating any more. You can tell she is getting skinny, but evrything else looks very normal.

- I have never used any chemical. I have schedule of water change once a week of roughly a third of the water of the tank. I scrub the algea which is not much around the tank every month or so. I use 2 of the Fluval 405 canister filters for the tank. The 1st group of 10 were introduced to the fully cycled tank about 6 months ago. The second group of another 10 3-4 months later.

- I have another 90 gallon tank with 7 of the mixed cichlids about 4 to 7 inch with no problem whatever for the last 18 months.

- My cichlids are mostly Peacocks from lake Malawi mixed with SA like Jewels, JDs, and firemouths.

 

[krytan]

African cichlids do not mix well with American Cichlids, i would say as the fish have got bigger there is a problem starting to develope. With African cichlids you have to overstock the tank to control aggression but with SA/CA cichlids you have to under stock the tank to control aggression. African and American cichlids also have different dietry and water chemistery needs.

 

[ksane]

I'd check ammonia, nitrites and especially nitrates. Depending on what kind of cichlids they are I can't imagine a weekly 30% water change is going to keep nitrates under control. Not with 3x a day feedings. Too high of nitrates make fish sick and they can creep up without you realizing it unless you actually test for it.

 

[snoopy65]

African cichlids do not mix well with American Cichlids, i would say as the fish have got bigger there is a problem starting to develope. With African cichlids you have to overstock the tank to control aggression but with SA/CA cichlids you have to under stock the tank to control aggression. African and American cichlids also have different dietry and water chemistery needs.

This sounds like most if not all of your problem. Not only do Africans and New World Cichlids have different needs, as they get larger and become sexually mature, aggression increases. Aggression will cause deaths without signs of disease. It will cause perfectly healthy fish to quit eating. Once they quit eating it is just a matter of time.

 

[steakman]

As I said above:

- There's no aggression whatsoever. If you are talking a nudge here and there is aggression I don't know a single fish will be considered community fish. I watch them closely every day for signs of abuse. None.

- All of them eat very normal every day, and then one in random starts to slow down (eating) then dies a couple days later.

- I am talking about 3 fish in 6 months period. 1 every 2 months or so.

- The 1st is Red Empress - Protomelas taeniolatus

- A month later the "Bicolor" - Aulonocara maulana dies.

- 2 days ago Blood-Red Jewel - Hemichromis lifalili.

Experts say most African cichlids are far more aggressive than their SA counterparts. But the dead fish I got were all African and were bigger in size. (Some say The Red Jewels are African cichlids, some say they are SA ???)

When I took them out, there was no sign of body damage. (I paid close attention when I see these symptom, that's why when they die I notice almost at once). I don't work, so I spend lots of time with them.

I test the water regularly. Everything is good. Ammo, Nitrite, Nitrate, and PH is between 7 to 7.4

I did say I feed them 2-3 times a day, but the amount is very minimum, more like big snacks, not like you dump a handful of food in the tank and walk away.

Thank you all you guys for your inputs though.

Warm regards,

SM

 

[Hebily]

Do you dechlorinate the water? Larger fish will suffer chlorine poisoning faster...
If there are trace amounts, they will build up slowly over time.

 

[steakman]

Do you dechlorinate the water? Larger fish will suffer chlorine poisoning faster...
If there are trace amounts, they will build up slowly over time.

This is the only part that I have not been paying attention to.

When I change water, I run a hose to take out the water from the tank, and I run another hose to get water to the tank directly from the sink.

In the past, I used some kind of chemical for de-chlorinating tap water, but I also experienced death fish due to this chemical. From that time on I have never used any at all, even API stress coat, or Tetra Aqua AquaSafe or whatever.

I do notice that every other time I change water, I mixed in a little bit of Aquarium salt, but I don't know because of the tap water or the salt that made all of the fish moving kinda sluggishly. Some get back to normal faster (recover?) than the others (30 minutes or so).

How do you treat your tap water?
How do I test for it?
If there's built-up in the tank, how do I remove it?

One thing that threw me off is why the rest of the community are doing ok? when tho others died from it!

Thank a big bunch.

SM

 

[Hebily]

It is difficult to find tests for cl. You can probably get jungle brand multi test strips that test chlorine.

Most of us use Seachem Prime to dechlorinate. It is fathoms better, IMO, then tetra aquasafe (I used to use). It doesn't bubble like many of them will, it neutralizes ammonia and nitrites (without making it so bacteria can't eat them). You use such a small amount, it winds up being cheaper. The only downside is the smell, but you only notice that from the open bottle. API's (stress coat +?) product has been associated with the death of certain types of fish, due to some ingredient in it, but I am not sure of much more than that.

To remove build up in the tank, dose prime to the whole tank.

Unfortunately, there is (if this is the cause of your issues) a build up of cl in your fish's tissues. With time, in cl free water, this may be reduced. You will likely have more deaths, if cl is the cause.

Each individual has a different cl sensitivity, and it also varies greatly by species. I (in my younger, more stupid days) had a syndontis die from cl poisoning (deduced based on water quality) a monthish after I got it, and others with much shorter lifespans because of it.

 

[krytan]

It is difficult to find tests for cl. You can probably get jungle brand multi test strips that test chlorine. Most of us use Seachem Prime to dechlorinate. It is fathoms better, IMO, then tetra aquasafe

I agree, also i wouldn't use salt when you do water changes as that will build up and will not benefit the fish.

 

[Hebily]

There is a huge debate over the benefits of aquarium salt; however, anyone would agree that in no case is it necessary, and in many cases it is harmful.