Some Fish Best Left Alone

wataugachicken said:
... BOTH parties need to take responsibility...
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Excellent post. And as to the following post stating that it's nonsense, I say shenanigans.

Every shopkeeper has the responsibility to know and understand their product so that he/she may provide the customer with sound advice that benefits the shopper and the well-being of the fish. That is called ethics.

The average beginner does not understand the intricacies of fish biology and aquarium keeping. Not that it's rocket science to keep a healthy community tank with hardy species, but most beginners are basing what they know about keeping aquariums from the perpetuated myths of the hobby, information they received from Joe Blow the Neighbor who just bought a tank, and the misperception that the only requirements are filling a tank full of water, adding fish and feeding them. People don't even realize there is volume upon volume of literature out there. They've never heard of the nitrogen cycle. They know low pH is acidic and high pH is basic and that neutral is 7. Water is soft or hard. They know fish have fins and gills and live in water. IME most people do want to be responsible for the needs of their pets, but just don't know how. When the first contact with the hobby a new fishkeeper has is most likely with the person selling him or her the tank, it IS the responsibility of the fish store employees to set him or her on the right path.

Once started down that path, every fishkeeper has the responsibilty to research the needs of the fish he or she wishes to keep and the responsibilty to provide for that fish (or invert) appropriately.

Responsibilty is a two way street.

WYite
 
Spewn said:
I'm not sure what sort of argument that is, really. I think we all forget that just a few tanks down from some of the specimen we feel shouldn't even be sold due to their too-often mistreatment are fish *sold as food*. How do you do this without a whole ton of red tape, and spending way more money than anyone will think it's worth?

You don't, because it really isn't as big of a deal as we in the hobby see it. We see a lot of these instances because people post them here, we look for them, etc. Most people have never even heard of a Pacu, and would wonder what on earth the government could possibly be wasting their time with.

The real fact is that this isn't likely to change because the problem just isn't as apparent as we think. It doesn't matter enough.
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My argument is that people who go into an electronic store to buy a $900 laptop are going to research more than those who walk into a pet store and buy a new fish for their tank that costs much, much less. The bigger the investment the more people are going to look into it. And don't forget that even on the world wide web there is a good portion of misinformation as well.

But I do have to agree with excuzzzeme that finding out who is to blame won't solve anything.
 
I have a big problem with suggesting that a consumer shouldn't be able to bring home "the wrong" fish because the retailer ought to interrogate him or her thoroughly before that can happen.

I don't want that, and I don't think it's appropriate or necessary.

Just because the average person assumes *incorrectly* that there's not much to keeping fish does not remove them from being responsible. It is not, and should not, be up to the retailer to police their sales.

Imagine if this happened in other industries? "Hi, I'd like a big mac with fries." "Sir, you sound full, can I ask how many times you've eaten already today?"

Please.
 
jpappy789 said:
But I do have to agree with excuzzzeme that finding out who is to blame won't solve anything.
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Sure it will. While we're stuck in this wishy-washy land where nobody has to be responsible for their own actions because someone else is bound to be at fault, somehow, someway, people keep making the same wrong decisions because nobody around them stands and points and says "FOOL!". Everybody is sympathetic. Everybody needs to be critical, instead.

Edit:
"LOL, Touche! That point just goes to show my choice of words were in error. I stand by the point I was trying to make. I was trying to differentiate fable *insert your word here* from education. "

I don't think your words were in error, because I don't think we disagree nor that I discounted your point. What you said is indeed important, but the point I was making is that it can be very difficult if not actually impossible to get actual fact.
 
Ok, well my point wasn't that we should be ignorant about it. :rolleyes:

rather we should fix the problem by doing exactly what this site is all about: offering up advise to those who ask questions. Simple, yet effective. Sure it's not going to fix all the problems with the hobby but it's a start.
 
Right, but the only thing this place is good for is empowering the consumer. That only happens if the consumer takes responsibility. If the consumer feels it's not his or her responsibility, but rather the retailer's, what then? That's my point.
 
Which is exactly why pointing fingers gets you no where. Both parties are "liable" but I guess only if they know any better. Sure its being ignorant, and sure there is a lot out there that can correct the misconceptions of keeping fish but I think I'll have to echo wata's point that unless there is something that leads to the questioning of the information given, people will keep spewing up and believing the falsehoods out there. And even then it won't click for some...just my opinion on this subject.
 
it's a case y case issue.... each one is different. IF the lfs explained everything that could/will be a problem and the customer buys anyway, fault is on the consumer. if they were not made aware of "special" requirement type fish, bad retailer.
 
I agree with the posts stating that it is both the sellers (whether it is a small LFS or a large chain) and buyers responsibility.

Because opinions on how to care for fish varies and a newly hired employee cannot be expected to have the knowledge necessary to teach others, why don't sellers provide a pamphlet giving basic knowledge along w/ do's and don'ts? Maybe something like what you get when you buy an aquarium kit that talks about cycling, proper aquarium size, etc. At least this way buyers who do care about their fish can get the basic information on what it takes to properly care for them.

I believe that most people who start out in this hobby want to do a good job of caring for their pets but have the misconception that all fish need are a tank, water, food, and maybe filtration. I know that when I was 12 yrs. old and got my first tank, that's about all I knew about raising fish. That being said, I do feel that anyone who plans on getting any pet should feel responsible for their well-being and learn about their care prior to getting a pet.

As for those who don't care or aren't willing to put in the effort to learn...try rock collecting.
 
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