steelerfan's 30 Gallon Breeder Journal/Build
- Thread starter steelerfan67
- Start date
thanks benson, i will check it out, although i am not so sure about all the miracles in a bottle out there 
A large WC might help but it may only be temporary. Since you are moving the tank for carpet you may want to give it a try but your shrimp and CUC aren't gonna like it unless you get that water close and you acclimate them (wanted to mention just in case). I know I sound like a broken record but I just have to think it has to do with a lack of diversity. Pods, feather dusters, micro stars and other bacteria all play a role in the ocean and I have to think this diversity becomes even more important in our little glass boxes.
What I am having a hard time with is the longevity. These bacteria need a food source so where is that coming from that is allowing them to survive and repopulate for this long?
How are the rocks and sand looking these days? Still seeing and green/brown algae or diatom frustules? Water any clearer with lights on/off? Sticking to a regular water change schedule and have you verified the water source has a zero TDS reading? Is the water still just cloudy white or is there any color to the cloud?
Leaning towards something buried deep in one of your rocks fueling this thing. Maybe get a hold of a really powerful pump or powerhead and just blow the daylights out it in some buckets of SW when you move the tank.
What I am having a hard time with is the longevity. These bacteria need a food source so where is that coming from that is allowing them to survive and repopulate for this long?
How are the rocks and sand looking these days? Still seeing and green/brown algae or diatom frustules? Water any clearer with lights on/off? Sticking to a regular water change schedule and have you verified the water source has a zero TDS reading? Is the water still just cloudy white or is there any color to the cloud?
Leaning towards something buried deep in one of your rocks fueling this thing. Maybe get a hold of a really powerful pump or powerhead and just blow the daylights out it in some buckets of SW when you move the tank.
http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/bacteria-in-a-bottle-snake-oil-or-worth-trusting/
Me too Steelerfan... not too sure about the bottle stuff... just check out the video at this link.
Me too Steelerfan... not too sure about the bottle stuff... just check out the video at this link.
since i only have approx 26 gallons in there, i think the 10 gallon i did is a pretty good amount and like you i think would only be a temp sollution.
main reason for doing the change is because i wanted to really blow the junk out of the rock and it needed to be in salt water so why not.
granted i have pods, amphipods, but not much else.
that's what i am having a hard time with. it's not like i put 6 fish in there right away and overtaxing the system. other than feeding a few pellets every other day for my cleaner and snails i have 0 going on.
i would think that the way i am doing it would give it time to form a nice little cycle.
rocks have some green algae with some having small green hair.
no diatoms left but sand has some detritus.
at midnight with lights out tank looks crystal clear, but by morning have a pollen haze devoloping and a little bit of white cloudiness.
water is showing 0 tds from my meter on ro/di. 36 going in and 0 going out.
i may try blowing the rocks out again in hopes to get even more out, but i would be lying if i said i wasn't getting a bit frustrated.
just put 1/4 cup rowa phos, 1/2 cup seachem's matrix carbon and new polyfilter in this 10 gallon change in hopes to fight phosphates if the rock is loaded with them.
main reason for doing the change is because i wanted to really blow the junk out of the rock and it needed to be in salt water so why not.
granted i have pods, amphipods, but not much else.
that's what i am having a hard time with. it's not like i put 6 fish in there right away and overtaxing the system. other than feeding a few pellets every other day for my cleaner and snails i have 0 going on.
i would think that the way i am doing it would give it time to form a nice little cycle.
rocks have some green algae with some having small green hair.
no diatoms left but sand has some detritus.
at midnight with lights out tank looks crystal clear, but by morning have a pollen haze devoloping and a little bit of white cloudiness.
water is showing 0 tds from my meter on ro/di. 36 going in and 0 going out.
i may try blowing the rocks out again in hopes to get even more out, but i would be lying if i said i wasn't getting a bit frustrated.
just put 1/4 cup rowa phos, 1/2 cup seachem's matrix carbon and new polyfilter in this 10 gallon change in hopes to fight phosphates if the rock is loaded with them.
I feel for you man! I hope things clear up for you soon so that you can totally enjoy your tank.
http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/bacteria-in-a-bottle-snake-oil-or-worth-trusting/
so being let's say, a little bit frustrated with my tanks progress, or should i say lack of it, i went ahead and ordered the above bacteria.
also got the ammonia chloride to go with it.
my dilema is that the article states the bacteria needs ammonia for a food source to work, but i do have snails and a skunk cleaner in there.
thinking the snails and cleaner will not be enough to really fuel the bacteria, but on the other hand i don't want to add ammonia and have it kill my critters.
the ammonia states to add 1 drop per gallon of water, so i am not sure if i were to add 5 drops total if that would raise ammonia or give the bacteria enough to survive on.
i know greech, add liverock, but i have read so many thread builds on another board where only dry rock was used and i have yet to see this kind of problem i have encounted.
i really don't even want to buy fish for my qt as i am not sure when or even if this thing is going to get resolved.
the shrimp and snails appear fine but i have to think with all the stuff floating around the tank that there has to be some negative happening.
so being let's say, a little bit frustrated with my tanks progress, or should i say lack of it, i went ahead and ordered the above bacteria.
also got the ammonia chloride to go with it.
my dilema is that the article states the bacteria needs ammonia for a food source to work, but i do have snails and a skunk cleaner in there.
thinking the snails and cleaner will not be enough to really fuel the bacteria, but on the other hand i don't want to add ammonia and have it kill my critters.
the ammonia states to add 1 drop per gallon of water, so i am not sure if i were to add 5 drops total if that would raise ammonia or give the bacteria enough to survive on.
i know greech, add liverock, but i have read so many thread builds on another board where only dry rock was used and i have yet to see this kind of problem i have encounted.
i really don't even want to buy fish for my qt as i am not sure when or even if this thing is going to get resolved.
the shrimp and snails appear fine but i have to think with all the stuff floating around the tank that there has to be some negative happening.
K so thinking this through, you are considering adding nitrifying bacteria to a tank that is already cycled that appears to be experiencing a heterotrophic bacteria bloom? As much as I think diversification is going to help, you already (at least you should) have these bacteria in your system through the cycling process. It shouldn't hurt to try as all you will do is boost your bacteria bed but there is no way I would add ammonia chloride to an established tank with inverts. If you do anything at all to introduce ammonia add a fish or remove your inverts and dose the bacteria and ammonia. Seriously don't add the ammonia to induce a 2ppm cycle as those instructions mentioned. Again you should already have the bacteria necessary to process this ammonia but how quickly is the question. I really fear it will not end well for your CUC and shrimp if you dose the AC.
If we are right and this is a bacteria bloom, a food source MUST be present to sustain the numbers you are seeing. The one thing that was mentioned (around the 6:50 mark) that seems to confirm something I mentioned a while back is that these blooms are more likely the result of heterotrophic bacteria which cannot synthesize their own food so there must be a food source somewhere. There is no way feeding a pinch of pellets each day would be enough to support those numbers. The bacteria giving your grief and the bacteria you are adding (and already have) don't compete for the same food source. The heterotrphs are going to eat the organics and break them down into ammonia, etc so that the nitrifying bacteria can eat that.
Did a quick search on RC on this product and found this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2004473&highlight=dr+tims
At this point I am just about as frustrated with this as you are. I completely understand your position and yes I have seen plenty of examples of tanks set up with completely dry rock and sand without these issues but I also think over the course of adding frags and corals that come on small pieces of LR rubble (or even larger pieces) the diversity finds its way into their systems.
I think I would bump your post on RC with some updated info. Someone over there has the info you need to address this. You may want to PM Amp or Ace on here and see if they can chime in. Really wish I could help more on this.
If we are right and this is a bacteria bloom, a food source MUST be present to sustain the numbers you are seeing. The one thing that was mentioned (around the 6:50 mark) that seems to confirm something I mentioned a while back is that these blooms are more likely the result of heterotrophic bacteria which cannot synthesize their own food so there must be a food source somewhere. There is no way feeding a pinch of pellets each day would be enough to support those numbers. The bacteria giving your grief and the bacteria you are adding (and already have) don't compete for the same food source. The heterotrphs are going to eat the organics and break them down into ammonia, etc so that the nitrifying bacteria can eat that.
Did a quick search on RC on this product and found this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2004473&highlight=dr+tims
At this point I am just about as frustrated with this as you are
. I completely understand your position and yes I have seen plenty of examples of tanks set up with completely dry rock and sand without these issues but I also think over the course of adding frags and corals that come on small pieces of LR rubble (or even larger pieces) the diversity finds its way into their systems. I think I would bump your post on RC with some updated info. Someone over there has the info you need to address this. You may want to PM Amp or Ace on here and see if they can chime in. Really wish I could help more on this.
