Tank Disaster help!

8.4 really isn't that high, and most aquarium fish will adapt easily if acclimated carefully. The PH lowering game is extremely difficult and troublesome (co2 use aside). I played this game for a few years once, and even with a lot of practice and a perfect routine, it will yo yo on you now and then. I would highly reccomend not putting yourself through this. The two most stable ways to lower it is with Co2 or peat moss, peat moss lowers ph by consuming your kh which means you stand the chance of ph crash if your routine ever gets skipped, or changes suddenly. I would look for a different underlying cause, and also consider that while many fish are resistive to ICH, many aren't even when only slightly stressed. A lot of catfish seem to get ich automatically whether stressed or not. Depending on how long it was after you moved them in, it may have been nothing more than the stress of moving. or something going on in the tank while it was new and getting estabilished.
Dave
 
Ich Disaster

So I don't have to alter the pH?? I was worried because I knew it was a difficult job. On my tests kits (when the fish were alive and healthy) the nitrite, nitrate, and hardness were good but the pH was a little high and the alkalinity or " buffering capacity" was too high as well and the kit reccomended "pHMinus". Have u heard anything about this product??
Anyway thanks a lot
 
If your ph is around 7.6 - thats acidic, right? I have read somewhere that some species of fish do not like acidic water.

If this is a true statement, how would one lower the ph. Mine is right at 7.6, and water changes (50%) doesnt seems to lower it...then again, it could be my test.

:eek:
 
jamzwayne, Yer backerds (for those who don't speak ohioan that means you're backwards) don't worry some of us are backwards some of the time and most of us are backwards most of the time or something like that.
7.0 being neutral anything above is alkaline, anything below is acidic. All fish have a home environment that is considered ideal. very few fish have trouble acclimating to differnt Ph ranges. Even picky fish such as Discus will live in ph's different from the ideal. In most cases, such as discus, the real issue is the total dissolved solid levels in the water Discus don't like hard water. water with a low TDS usually leans more toward the neutral to acid side of things, and higher tds harder water usually leans toward the alkaline side. There of course are always ways to change and maniplulate this, but these are the general rule for most applications.In the case of lowering PH there are a few differant ways. #1 is t remove the buffers which hold the ph higher i.e. your KH level. the reason peat is mentioned is that it leaches tannins (tannic acid) into the water and eats up the buffer causing the ph to drop It does not drop ph untill the KH is consumed, which makes it very slow, and also makes it somewhat useless if your KH is really high. It does this slowly and therefore doesn't cause the big swings assosciated with other buffering products. In the case of Co2, carbonic acid is created which lowers PH, but does so with minimal impact on KH. With CO2 you can lower the ph while the kh remains steady co2 does deplete the KH eventually, and this is why kh testing is critical when using co2, and why it is necessary to keep a certain kh level in order to prevent ph crashes. In either case when the buffer is gone the water is apt to quickly change ph and that gets dangerous.

I am not familiar with the ph minus procduct itsef. when I played this game years ago, I used Discus buffer by seachem, the product itself does work, but it creates an unstable environment, and therefore allows for a lot of swinging back and forth. in addition these products typically have all kinds of stuff in them that we really don't want in our tanks, not to mention the addition of solids which contribute to the TDS levels and affect our water quality in one way or another. In most cases As I learned years ago, you use the product to eat up your buffer, and then the same product takes the ph on a big swing. then you do a water change to fix that and start the process over. It took me months to figure out how to stabilize the system, in conjunction with water changes, and I spent a lot of money in the process. Never again for me.
As far as your test kit reccomendations to use the products. bear in mind the company that sells the test kit makes a living with these products. They reccomend them to enhance their profits, It doesn't mean they are bad, or good but it also doesn't mean they are necessary. Happy chem or one of the other experts will hopefully correct anything I misstated, and maybe shed some more light on the actual ingredients in these products.
HTH
Dave
 
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Coping with Ich Disaster

Thanks for your very helpful advice- I dont know what I would do without this forum. I have decided not to meddle with the pH, strangly enough, my water is very soft yet the pH is quite alkaine ( haha learned that in science class-Water unit). Oh well, now I must plan on what fish to get....
 
pisces22 said:
Thanks for your very helpful advice- I dont know what I would do without this forum. I have decided not to meddle with the pH, strangly enough, my water is very soft yet the pH is quite alkaine ( haha learned that in science class-Water unit). Oh well, now I must plan on what fish to get....

I obviously missed that class. :D
 
Coping with Ich Disaster

Sorry but i was away on vacation and my brain is a little slow.....I raised the temp and decided to stop with "nox-ich" and just go with table salt. I read to treat the water with 1-3 teaspoons of salt per gallon for two weeks-do u just put the salt in once or are u supposed to put 1-3 tsp per day(i wouldnt think so) for two weeks? Thanks for your patience, Im just very nervous and i dont want to screw anything up!!
 
jamzwayne said:
WOW Dave

Reading that makes me think of you as a scientist. :D

Thanks for clearing that up...I have been known to be backerds on many occasions. :laugh:

stop you're scaring me!! :laugh: :sad :laugh:


my water is very soft as well, it read 6.8 when it comes out of the tap. after the co2 equalizes, it reads 7.4-7.6 but the kh is between 2 and 3. when I raise my kh to a sold 4 then my ph is between 7.8 and 8.0. but it stays very stable at those levels.
Dave
 
I thought I'd add some more to my last reply, Soft and hard water are very relative terms as related to Ph. RO or DI water is slightly acidic. the other stuff in the water increases the ph to at or above neutral (7.0) the addition of acids or acid creating process in turn lowers the PH.
My water mentioned above comes out of the tap with a gh of 12 and a kh between 2-3 like mentioned before. this is by no means hard water, but there is enough stuff in it to raise the ph well above neutral. Harder water typically has a higher Ph. In the old days with well water, my ph was 8.8-9.2 out of the tap. if you sat it in a jar overnight you would get visible settling and rust in the bottom of the jar. We didn't drink it, but we did shower in it, and my fish did live in it, my budget didn't allow for Ro water in those days.
dave
 
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