Terminalia Catappa ,(almond Leaves)for Discus

Maj0rFiSh

L33t 5p34k m0f0!!11one
Jan 14, 2005
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South Coast of UK
Ever heard of this stuff? Anyone used it??

INDIAN ALMOND LEAVES OR TERMINALIA CATTAPAN

EXTENSIVELY USED BY DISCUS BREEDERS THROUGHOUT SOUTH EAST ASIA

ONTHE BOX:

"NATURAL MIRACLE LEAF

ANTI BACTERIM TREATED

MOST NATURAL ACIDIC ADDITIVE IN THE MARKET

NATURAL COLOR ENHANCEMENT AND FOR YOUR FISHES

NATURE'S BEST WATER STABILIZER

CONTROL THE SPREAD OF ALGAE GROWTH"

CONTAINS 6 SACHET

EACH SACHET TREATS 20-150L OF TANK WATER

HARVESTED FROM NON-MAN MADE FERTILIZING TERRAIN

DRIED NATURALLY IN THE SUN
 
EXTENSIVELY USED BY DISCUS BREEDERS THROUGHOUT SOUTH EAST ASIA


This quote is unlikely. Any good breeder in Asia (which there are plenty) raise fish like they do here in the U.S.

I've never heard of this particular product, but I have heard of people using I think Oak leaves instead. I personally would use it because of the fact that it will start to rot quickly and therefor degrade water quality quickly.

And, as my Bio teacher put it... if it were so great everyone would be using it. I think it's just another snake oil.
 
Big line of BS thats all it is. The top breeders in asia us RO water to adjust their water params for breeding purposes, just like here in the US and anywhere else people breed. Anyone worth their salt knows that adding any substance to the water in order to chance the chemistry is one of the dumbest things you can do, it makes the water unstable and dangerous for the fish, not a risk you want to be taking on a breeding pair thats worth $400+. RO water is just that, water with a MUCH smaller amount of minerals and other substances, by adding this to tap water you can safely adjust the pH, gH, kH, and TDS of the water without causing it become unstable. Too many people out there think they need to add chemicals and such to their fish tanks to make it "Suitable" for the fish, its not the truth, and the Aquarium Chemical industry is making an ungodly amount of money because of it. The only chemicals I would even say are a nessecity, are decholrinators if your water has chlorine in it, thats it, even then it would be better if you could set up a storage container to age the water before doing your WC and let the chlorine dissapate into the air before hand.
 
Don't know what this guy's credentials are so take this with a grain of salt, but here's an article on almond leaves:Alomond leaves: The poor man's water conditioner

Anyone worth their salt knows that adding any substance to the water in order to chance the chemistry is one of the dumbest things you can do

I don't know. I agree that "chemicals" that adjust ph are indeed dangerous snake oil, but we're talking about a filter bag with almond leaves in it. I see multiple threads at "the krib.com", and "apistogramm.com" from very knowledgable and experienced breeders that use peat and oak leaves in conjunction with RO water to achieve the low ph and gh needed for some of the harder to breed sa cichlids. The RO water I have access to has a ph of 6.8. This falls far short of the low sixs that I will need to achieve if I ever want to breed some of the trickier apistos.**

**I know, in most cases it's the hardness that makes the difference, but from what i've heard some apistos do indeed need a low ph to breed.
 
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RO water is usually acidic or at least neutral. So yes, if it is a fish that needs a pH of 4.5-5 you may want to do a little more, but for most fish, and especially discus, adjusting pH from that normally found in RO is silly.
 
I've heard of the product, but I haven't used it. I would imagine it would have the same effect as peat moss or oak leaves. Personally, I wouldn't doubt that tanins released into the water wouldn't have some degree of theraputic properties. Softer, tinted water= a more natural environment.
Before certain people get up in arms and tell me that Discus have been captive raised for 100's of generations and don't need nearly the care of wild-caught counterparts, let me point out that we have certain traits that have been with us since we were running from Mammoths.
 
Wild caught discus are about the same as domestics. You can keep them in hard, alkaline water as well... and equally as well, in brightly lit BB tanks. Discus are simply not touchy.

I think tanins are a personal taste for most circumstances. Some people like the look, others don't.
 
Yes im not going to use this stuff, just i found it kinda cheap and ****ty lookin to be honest.

Discus dont mind the harder water or higher PH, its the PH change, sudden changes that kill discus.

My ph was 8, over 2 months i slowly got it down to 7, now using 2/3 RO.
 
Moo, its not the pH that effects spawning of cichlids. Its the gH and TDS in your water. If you have a high TDS and a high gH you will have a low, if anything, hatch rate from most south american dwarves, discus, etc. pH has nothing to do with it, but generally a high pH also means hard water, but not always. A low pH has nothing to do with the breeding of these fish. You just want very soft water with a very low TDS, probably no more than a 100-150 ms. Even then, the only thing ticky about most of the apistos and trying to get them to spawn is actually triggering the spawn. Many of them require an environmental change to induce the spawn, usually a water change done with cooler water simulating the rainy seasons.

Fish, wild discus are just as, if not hardier than their captive bred relatives. I would probably argue that they are hardier, simply because they have been exposed to all kinds of things in the wild, and would not still be alive if they couldn't deal with them, that not always the case with domestics.

Yep, the almond leaves are like peat and other such things you just throw on into your filter....but what happens when they stop releasing their tannins? You won't know, and then you do a WC, and you get a pH swing, thats real stable.

Using anything to "adjust" your water to the conditions you think it should be, other than RO, is just completely stupid. None of the more successful, and reputable breeders use anything other than RO. One its unstable I don't care what it is it will be unstable, and two its expensive especially for the world's top breeders and their volumes, even on a hobbyist scale is expensive. So if you want to believe all this and that, go right a head, but adding this to your water will only change the pH, it will do nothing to remove TDS, or soften your water...why because its still going to be right there in your tank, it doesn't just magically dissapear.

On to the evolution theory here, well lets see fish, certain traits huh....well last time I checked we weren't always living in the areas of the world that we are today....golly gee we adapted, and Golly Gee, maybe those super touchy die if they don't get exactly what they do in the wild discus can too, and oh my, they do every day. Its really amazing how many of the people on this forum, think they know soooooo much about discus, but nearly everything they say contradicts what the people on a few other forums dedicated to discus, have to say about them, Including some of the world renouned breeders and wild importers, such as Alberto from Aquatechnics who just successfully spawned Heckles in captivity, how'd he do it, by not giving them a WC for a week......hmmm but they need more care cause they are from the wild....well that line of BS just went out the window didn't it fish, do a little bit of research from now on, its amazing how quickly those ideas ya got can be thrown out the window, but then again, if ONE site says its ok, then it must be true....right?
 
Nat,
I'm just making a suggestion. I know it's fun and cool to throw around names and come across as the guru of all that is Discus. I don't blame you for that. You need to remember though, that if you're really doing all that you say you're doing in the industry, it's unavoidable that we'll run across each other in person at some point. I'm not one to take all your drivel to heart, but a litte respect can go a long way. Obviously, you're one to get your feelings hurt pretty easily and that's okay. I'll tell you this, though, I've said very few definates and I've approached you hat-in-hand from the beginning. If you have a problem, feel free to send me a PM, but do yourself and everyone else a favor and show a little respect.
 
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