To change or Not to change that is the question...
- Thread starter Dochere
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Hatter, I am sorry I am not making myself clear. I will try one more time to see if I can get you to understand my logic.
It is my understanding that fish give off nitrogenous waste products which break down to ammonia. It is my understanding that certain bacteria convert this ammonia to nitrite and others convert nitrite to nitrate.
Most people have an under gravel filter with a substrate on top that collects waste product. Even though they siphon the substrate, there is still waste product present. Certain Bacteria breaks down this waste to nitrite and others convert this nitrite to nitrate as the waste works its way down to the filter plate, eventually rendering the ingredients harmless.
In my set up there isn't waste product present. So my logic tells me that if there isn't product to be consumed, then the entities that consume the product would not be present or at least not in the quantities that would be present in a traditional setup. Also considering the additives I add to combate ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate I would figure that this would play a part as well. I could be wrong, but that is where the disclaimer of "my logic" comes in.
Seeing as phosphate is a ester of phosphoric acid, or salt, I am assuming that it is in the buffer that I use, or maybe my water...
I have no idea?
I apologize, I was thinking phospherous. Anyway, what do you think of the setup I described? Would you do water changes if they were as easy as I said?
The only way there is no waste product present in your tank is if you have no living fish. Those products don't show up on a test kit if you use chemical means to remove them (ie, nitrite reducers, ammonia absorbing media) or have biological filtration . The bacteria are present, just in levels that won't process all the waste products if the chemical support were removed.
Ammonia and nitrite are no big deal--the biological component of your filtration is not questionable. Nitrates are difficult to process in an unplanted, freshwater setup. Further, nitrates are an indicator of other, less detectable toxins. As nitrates rise, so cna other problems. Water changes is the best and easiest way to manage these other dissolved organics.
As for your additions of bacteria--there are not any products that have been proven effective in adding bacteria. Anything that sits on a shelf is likely snake oil at best.
As for your readings...You test reguarly for phosphates and iron, but not for nitrites? Seems silly to me, but hey, it's not my buck. Your pH seems high for me, but I don't run Africans, so maybe that's normal. Exactly what are you using to get your salinity reading? Most people use hydrometers, and a reading of 1.2 on a hydrometer would be saltier than most oceans.
Ammonia and nitrite are no big deal--the biological component of your filtration is not questionable. Nitrates are difficult to process in an unplanted, freshwater setup. Further, nitrates are an indicator of other, less detectable toxins. As nitrates rise, so cna other problems. Water changes is the best and easiest way to manage these other dissolved organics.
As for your additions of bacteria--there are not any products that have been proven effective in adding bacteria. Anything that sits on a shelf is likely snake oil at best.
As for your readings...You test reguarly for phosphates and iron, but not for nitrites? Seems silly to me, but hey, it's not my buck. Your pH seems high for me, but I don't run Africans, so maybe that's normal. Exactly what are you using to get your salinity reading? Most people use hydrometers, and a reading of 1.2 on a hydrometer would be saltier than most oceans.
Wow! pH at 9.2. Soda Lake! You're more alkaline than Lake Tanganyika there, Dochere. That's part of your secret, I think. I don't know the chemistry-- you're as far from my acidic, soft, tannic, planted tanks as a mini-reef is, about 100 timews more alkalinity!-- but obviously your nitrite/nitrate eliminators are working. An ion-exchange resin that trades nitrate for carbonate, right? The extra carbonates pumped into the water, along with your Tanganyika Buffer Salts are acting as a chemical filter by complexing with PO4, copper etc. and precipitating them. I'll bet there's some carbonate "snow" getting caught up in your filter media and exported.
Your cleanliness and powerful filtration means there's very little biodegrading of wastes going on, which would be eating at your alkaline buffer. High oxygen content, low BOD. Do you dose with hydrogen peroxide? (I do.)
I'm surprised you don't use PolyFilters, a standby for me.
I wish I knew the chemistry behind those conditioners!
Another secret: 11 fish in 70 gallons. I bet you don't overfeed them. Not much flake feed going into that system, no? Live food and veggies?
Your cleanliness and powerful filtration means there's very little biodegrading of wastes going on, which would be eating at your alkaline buffer. High oxygen content, low BOD. Do you dose with hydrogen peroxide? (I do.)
I'm surprised you don't use PolyFilters, a standby for me.
I wish I knew the chemistry behind those conditioners!
Another secret: 11 fish in 70 gallons. I bet you don't overfeed them. Not much flake feed going into that system, no? Live food and veggies?
If they were as easy as you said (or maybe a little easier) I would probably do them once a month and what you said seems pretty simple. Now we need to devise a way to remove and add the water to the tank in just one step and I might be hooked.
I still am not seeing why I should do this though. It seems that most people are doing water changes to remove nitrates and debris, but if nitrates aren’t an issue, there isn't debris, and all tests are acceptable, what will I be removing then? Water?
I could see my whole system crashing down as soon as I start doing water changes.
I still am not seeing why I should do this though. It seems that most people are doing water changes to remove nitrates and debris, but if nitrates aren’t an issue, there isn't debris, and all tests are acceptable, what will I be removing then? Water?
I could see my whole system crashing down as soon as I start doing water changes.
Well, starting water changes WOULD crash the tank (at least the fish would die). They wouldn't be able to deal with the PH jumping down...so just in case this discussion motivates you to do a water change, figure out how to not send your fish into shock before you do it 
OrionGirl, I do test Nitrites, you misread my post. 9.2 is about average of what every top tanganyika expert I have seen has suggested.
I use a Lamotte kit for salinity, a direct reading titrator, with a range of 0-20ppt. 1.2 is quite low.
I have wondered if the high alkalinity could have something to do with the way this tank behaves.
I have no idea how the nitrate reducer works, but that way sounds good to me???
Yes the food is live most of the time or small doses of frozen. I feed very little at a time and make sure everything is consumed before adding more. I do add seaweed as well but in a feeder and I remove it after about 5 minutes and through away the excess.
