to feed feeders or not

[geoffgarcia]

I think its just downright cruel to the animals to feed feeder fish to another fish.

why? death begets life.

This is the typical kind of response from someone who buys feeders and feeds live fish to there fishies.

I wasn't referring to the sale of feeder fish. The other poster mentioned refusing selling fish because of perceived tank conditions, thats what I was referring to.

This is the typical kind of response from someone who buys feeders and feeds live fish to there fishies. They dont like there cruel ways pointed out to them because they dont think there doing anything wrong, plus theyll adamitlly defend there positions as if i would really listen or care as to what a cruel person has to say.

so you impose your opinion on others without giving them a shot at responding? isn't that the textbook definition of closeminded?

I always give them dirty looks when im at the fish store cuz i know there all chicken @##$. I give them that your sick /weird vibe and make em feel guilty because they are guilty, Its just one of the things I like to do to entertain myself when im at the LFS, I just cant help myself.

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at this...

 

[Dapple2]

not everyone that buys feeders is a a redneck jarhead

if I was constantly given this speech I would most likely start shopping at another fish store. The very first time I got denied buying fish somewhere I would cease shopping at that store.

From what i've learned in this hobby: most LFS workers think they know more than every customer, I dislike having that shoved down my throat when I am looking to make a purchase.

You wouldn't like me much either then. I refuse sales quite often. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that 7 bala sharks in a ten gallon tank, oscars in a ten gallon tak, or a clown fish in a *freshwater* tank are acceptable purchases. All three are things I have turned down just this week. Yeah, two of them got upset...but ya know what, I don't *care* if they shop elsewhere! Most other customers appreciate my candor when i tell them something isn't right for their tanks and that I'm not just trying to sell themanything.

 

[RTR]

Nobody seems to be mentioning that there are plenty of foods other than feeders and pellets. Hello? Ever visited the freezer? Ever been to the seafood counter at the grocery? The protein/veggie dichotomy is as false as any of the others being tossed around in this thread.

I keep predators. I never use LFS feeders and likely never will again - not from moral scruples, but to protect the health and life of my fish. My most recent predator acquisition (a Palembang's puffer) took three tries to accept prawn on a thread, for a cumulative total of less than half an hour of my time invested on a wild-caught piscivore. C'mon folks - get real. Posturing is not either an argument or a discussion. Protein needs may well be real, but artificial dichotomies are not. This is not PETA, we do keep captive animals, and we should try to meet their needs. But I have yet to see any real reference suggesting that captive fish have a requirement for starving diseased feeders from the LFS.

 

[geoffgarcia]

You wouldn't like me much either then. I refuse sales quite often. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that 7 bala sharks in a ten gallon tank, oscars in a ten gallon tak, or a clown fish in a *freshwater* tank are acceptable purchases. All three are things I have turned down just this week. Yeah, two of them got upset...but ya know what, I don't *care* if they shop elsewhere! Most other customers appreciate my candor when i tell them something isn't right for their tanks and that I'm not just trying to sell themanything.

I agree with you, there are times when you need to help educate some customers, but those examples you put up are extreme.

Nobody seems to be mentioning that there are plenty of foods other than feeders and pellets. Hello? Ever visited the freezer? Ever been to the seafood counter at the grocery?

I assumed this was a given

The protein/veggie dichotomy is false

explain why its
false.

 

[StreetCypher]

I believe that all fish can be weaned off live foods and will eventually accept pellets. Some just take longer than others, and may not take so long if the owners didn't give in and buy them feeders. My bichirs all accept prepared foods (assorted frozen foods and assorted pellets, nightcrawlers), they happily gulp them down. At first they snubbed pellets, but learned that they're food.
I think that feeders are alright if you approach them the right way and give them only as a treat. Its one of the pros of having a predatory fish, watching them hunt. If you grow your own, great. If you buy them, quarantine first and give only as treats every once in a while.
I haven't fed feeders to my fish yet, but will once i can do it safely.

 

[xytrix01]

I'm not so sure about the cruelty thing... i mean its the food chain... bigger analmals eat smaller ones... My reasons for diliking the idea of feeders come from firsthand experience and from what I have read. It's true that goldfish do have a dencer bone structure than other kinds of fish, and this can be a problem for some fishes digestion. I have also heard that they are very high in fat due to what they are raised for... also, excluding due to tank conditions...thats because I clean the thing... I see how bad it is, and I know how contaminated those fish are. I have seen both ich and fungus on the dead fish in our filter not to mention various other fungus like groths that I could not and did not care to identify. And guess what... we don't treat that tank!!! Putting these fish in your tank is just asking to get a dessease. I already did. Back when I fed feaders, sure enough here my fish gets fungus and I've got the temp up to 86 and dosing salt with daily water changes for two weeks. If there is food that is better for the fish, and won't cause these problems, then why are you so against it?

soy is the only complete plant protein. If your giving animals a strict plant diet they could suffer from this lack of amino variety. The best diet is variety aand animal proteins are very important (IMHO)

I sugest that if its a carnivore that it be fed the Hikari brand sinking carnivore pellets. it says on the package that these contain a min of 47% anamal protein. not all pellets are vegy based...

 

[legbamel]

I think its just downright cruel to the animals to feed feeder fish to another fish.

So, I don't understand why it's different to feed feeders rather than food that was made from live stuff. Why is it a big deal to feed live shrimp rather than shrimp pellets? I understand that buying feeder goldfish from Petco is a really bad idea - I've seen their tanks and we don't buy ANY fish there - but if you've got a reputable source or are raising them yourself how is feeding the live ones any more cruel than supporting companies that farm, kill, and process all sorts of critters? I agree that feeders can't be the sole diet for any fish, but I don't think feeding them the way they'd eat were they in the river/ocean/lake is cruel.

 

[Seaman]

Ok I'm going to have to disagree with the majority, how is feeding feeders cruel...its called the natural life cycle....big fish catch and eat little fish. I dont do it for "shock" value....I have 2 nandus and 2 butis who were widld caught and WILL NOT TOUCH anything but live foods, they are ambush predators and are scared eaisly by feeding sticks and even me being in the room, thus the only option is live. I raise my own guppy feeders and gut load them with foods so that they are very nutritious for the predators. I agree it may not be as complete nutrition as would be if i had my choice in what they eat......but thats what they would eat in the wild is live fish....so I dont think its a bad thing.

now rosy reds and comet gold fish i dont like those at all....they are way higher fat content vs protien content compared to guppies.

so to the people who say ALL fish will accept non-live foods....I'm calling BS.

 

[daveedka]

I fully agree that almost any fish can be weaned off of live food, Tiger woods could be weaned off of golf clubs but he wouldn't be as happy. I resent the fact that feeders are always assumed to be goldfish as well, but that is really irrellevant since my predators have never seen a goldfish in their lives and won't. The whole cruelty idea is laughable IMO. The shock value idea is as well, /If I want shock value I'll stick cockroaches in the microwave (I don't do that either BTW). I feed live foods because I own fish that like to hunt. I make sure my fish have a varied diet, and get good nutrition. This diet includes many live foods and many prepared foods, also shrimp that someone else killed so my fish don't have to. nothing goes in my tank that isn't either raised by me or quarantined . It is ridiculous IMO to own an animal that is genetically programmed to hunt and then completely deprive them of that activity. It is also ridiculoous to feed them goldfish from an LFS tank when there are so many risks involved. And BTW I am a redneck, I am not a jarhead, And I have a lot of trouble telling one type of close minded person from another, but Trolls are usually easy to spot.
Dave

 

[Gambusia]

The North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission has tried to wean muskellunge fry they raise onto pellets without success.

I have never seen muskellunge take anything like a pellet.

Pickerel and Northern Pike are different stories.

I feed my fish mostly pellets anyway with occasional feeder fish.