Undertow Undergravel Filtration systems

[mcdeali]

I have a Penn Plax UGF in a 55g with an Elite 803 pump running two bubble posts in each corner of the tank. I have the posts set about 2 in under the surface. I have 21 fish in the tank. I was wondering if I put the posts lower would that create better oxygenation in the water. I also want to get another pump and run two more posts in the middle of the tank. Is this overkill or am I already under oxygenated and in need of that second pump.

Also my posts alternate by themselves on which one is going to put out more bubbles. Can I fix this somehow or is this normal?

 

[RioXingu]

Better oxygenation by being lower? Gas exchange in the aquarium seems to be a surface phenomenon. The more you churn the surface, the more gas is exchanged.
The position of your air releasers in the tube would be ok where they are, IMHO.
More riser tubes for your UGF would provide more water through the gravel and hence more "filtration", especially in the vicinity of their location.
Considering your set-up, perhaps you could consider a power head to run your UGF.
If you really want to use air pumps, running them with gang valves will regulate the air pressure to each air stone and maintain an even supply of air to all outlets.
I hope this helps you out.

Bill in WI

 

[Rocketman]

Bill's got it. I would definitly use a powerhead, (probably an Aquaclear.)

What is the other filter you have running? If you have a power filter, (i.e. Whisper, Penguin,) running on the side of the tank you don't need any more oxygen. These filters create enough surface agitation to bring in plenty of oxygen.

 

[mcdeali]

Powerhead? I don't know what that is.

I have no other filter, the LFS that sold my husband the UGF said that that was enough and another LFS said if I put on overhead filter? that it was overkill.

I know not to listen to them now but majorly still in the learning phase...hence the initial question.

Please tell me what I need or what you suggest.

I have had two fish that were shimmying then died. The second LFS said my water was probably under oxygenated and to get an oxygen stone.

Through experience these LFS's aren't too bright and have told me bad things.

Now I feel through the two responses that I am underfiltered as well.

 

[Sensei_the_dojo]

It's hard to tell from what you've posted if you're really underfiltered. You stated that you've got 21 fish in a 55 gallon tank, but you didn't post what types and quantities of fish they are. There's a big difference between 21 neon tetras in a 55 gallon and 21 plecos in a 55 gallon.

 

[ash]

she's overstocked but she's working on correcting the problem. Mc Dealie you could maybe put the store credit from the gobies towards getting a nice hang on the back filter-

 

[mcdeali]

Sorry about not posting the exact fish....I have posted before in other threads...I am currently overstocked (thanks to other people) I intead to take the bigger fish back.

2 female bettas
2 gouramis (red fire & blue powder)
3 mickey mouse platys
2 ropefish (going back)
1 tire track eel (going back)
2 dragon gobys (going back tonight)
2 zebra danios
2 paradise fish
3 bala sharks
4 painted tetras (didn't know the painting process when bought)

 

[mcdeali]

hey ash...any type in particular?

that was my idea when i take the gobys back tonight.

i'm having a problem taking the ropefish and eel back...everyone says that they are too big and i've only had them about a week. they are still the size that i bought them. as for the LFS we bought them from my husband didn't know that they did not have a return policy on livestock and we are not going back there again. when i called to tell them my dillemma they said that i am fine and should keep them. but last night we lost a platy and the stupid ropefish almost choked to death trying to eat it whole.

and they say fish are boring...lol

 

[daveedka]

UGF's RFUG's and RTR's OERFUG

The biggest drawback to a UGF is that no one prints good maintenance instructions. these are great filters that can lead to dissaster if not maintained properly.
Read this article if you have time, it outlines many good and bad things about UGF's, and some alternative methods that I am a big fan of. Your conventional UGF will take some good maintenance paractices to maintain (no more than most filters though) I highly reccomend reverse flow. I also reccomend more than one filter on any tank so the HOB is a good idea IMO. I would go with AC or Emporer, but there are many good options.

A powerhead is basically a submersable pump that will pull the water up through the tube and circulate it out to you tank the same way the air does now, but with much more consistency, and much less noise. If you get the right type of p0werhead, you can set up the reverse flow spelled out in the article, and achieve an extremely nice set-up that eliminates almost all failure situations that UGF's have. If you do go reverse. I highly reccomend a penguin powerhead, because they have a very nice inexpensive prefilter system, and a Prefilter is an absolute must for rfug set-ups. With a 55, I'd use two 660's or two 1140's. RFUG create almost no noticeable current, and therefore you don't have to worry about going big on the pwerheads.

As far as the fish dying, it is probably more due to cycle, or bad stock issues than being underfiltered. Also remember that no matter wwhat your filter does, it is still part of your tank system, it collect waste, but does not remove it. you have to remove the waste by rinsing the media, or in the case of a UGF, by doing very good very routine vaccuming of the substrate.
that being said...
just for the record, I firmly believe that overkill is difficult if not impossible to achieve with filtration more filtration makes maintenance easier, as long as you aren't turning so much current that it bothers your fish. Filters put the waste in an easy access place so you can rinse it down the drain. the more they do the less vaccuming you do, the more media surface area you have the less you wear out and replace media. I'm lazy so I like to overfilter. I wash sponges after my weekly water change and clean my Hob's out once a month.

 

[ash]

I overfilter too- I like penguins (which I think are the same basic system as the emperor- which I have only heard good things about) I'm sorry you are having such a tough time with the cycling and the bad advice- are thr two stores you mentioned the only two in the area?