Vehicles can not be used to commit deadly force???????

I realize we should give law enforcement the bennefit of the doubt.......but, unfortunately, whenever I hear a story like this I remember something that happened in my own town a couple of years ago:

It was Christmas Eve, maybe six years ago. This guy had a few too many drinks at the company Christmas party. While driving home, he decided to pull over on the side of a quiet road to sleep it off (granted not the smartest place to stop.) A cop came by, stopped, and rapped on his driver's side window with his flashlight. The driver woke up, started his car, and tried to pull away. The cop then tried to jump in front of his moving car but the guy didn't stop. Luckily, the cop wasn't hurt. The guy had pulled away and was moving away from the cop, but the officer still pulled his gun and fired, striking the driver in the back of his head.

The officer's life was no longer in danger when he pulled the trigger, so a claim of self defense was not justified. No criminal charges were filed to the best of my knowlege, but the officer did lose his badge.

The circumstances in this case in Los Angeles are different......the suspect was backing into the police car....but ten shots? I think it is important to remember that the LAPD does have a reputation, whether justifiable or not,
of being a little cavalier with their use of force.

Isn't their police chief the same guy who dropped the bomb on the MOVE compound in Philadelphia back in the eighties?
 
mindtonic said:
The circumstances in this case in Los Angeles are different......the suspect was backing into the police car....but ten shots?
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Once you fire your gun, the stakes are raised. There is no inherent difference in shooting someone twice and ten times. Besides, he probably only hit the kid once or twice...
 
Violent games produce violent people?
I love my GTA games. I am not a violent person. I would rather be the first to be punched than the first to throw the punch.

Some people, however, do not know where games end and reality begins. It is very much a blur for some. I don't know why it is that way, but it is. I do agree that violent games can make a person violent. So can bad parents, bad friends, bad personal decisions.

In basic training, we were given a basic run-down of when to use deadly force. In this situation, where the indivdual was obviously going to use it if necissary to get away(striking a police car w/ your car, maliciously), then deadly force was needed. If the driver decided not to heed the warnings of the police, and by striking a police car, again, malicously, then the driver should expect to be fired upon.

What is it going to come down to? Are the police officers going to have to wait to use deadly force until they themselves are wounded or killed? They have a right to defend their lives. 10 shots? 10 shots can happen extremely quickly. I would rather that the officers over-killed, than missed, only to have the driver crash into someones house.

I also think that if the parents think that sueing the police is going to fix their criminal son, they have another thing coming(I hope). Where were the parents allowing thier son to be out stealing cars at 4 am? I think that the parents should have to pay damages to the police. IMO, the parents are looking for a scape goat, because they were bad parents.
 
It's just someone hoping to capitalize with a quick settlement. Obviously the police did the right thing. However, nowadays it is often cheaper to settle than fight a case not to mention the LAPD has a crappy reputation and a civil suit by jury could be even worse than settling, likely exponentially. It's a sad fact and it is a great indication as to why we need Tort reform so badly in the US.
 
ok I am a big thing with parenting, where were they? and this kid couldn't have one day be a "normal" kid and then wake up and be like, HEY, I am gonna steal a car at 4 in the morning and run from cops! How did it lead up to this, not enough parenting? I think society is getting very lazy and letting tv, games, and computers take care of the children instead of actually watching them. And nothing wrong with corporal punishment, not saying thats the only way to teach a child but hey, the stare from the mother across the room was enough to shut me up and stop what I am doing, and trust me, I was afraid of the oak paddle my dad did use. And the funny thing was, when he said bend over on the couch... WE LISTENED!!!!! We didnt' run, we didn't cover our A$$ES or anything!
 
slipknottin said:
Once you fire your gun, the stakes are raised. There is no inherent difference in shooting someone twice and ten times. Besides, he probably only hit the kid once or twice...
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Once the decision has been made to use deadly force, shots are fired until the threat is no longer a threat. In the case of a car backing up with the intent to harm, this is going to result in many shots. I wasn't kidding in the post above about where was his partner. Under those situations, no one counts shots, they are probably thinking about a smooth reload. I do agree about the hit count. The officer might have only hit the target a few times out of the ten rounds. Often first shots create openings in cover for follow up shots.

It all boils down to the old saying, "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6" ;) That goes for any armed person that makes the critical decision to protect themselves.
 
ryknier! Amen brother! Couldn't have put it better myself!

For the record, I don't necessarily believe that violent games = violent people; however, the degree of realism and lack of negative consequences (or worse, positive reinforcement) in the games mixed lazy parenting is a bad combination. That said, I was being a little more tongue in cheek than philosophising.

As for the situation Mindtonic described, frankly I think that the guy had it comming, but I'm a bit of a hard liner when it comes to drinking and driving, in my mind it's not 1950 anymore and everyone knows better. How many people die each year from drunk drivers? I don't care if some drunk gets behind the wheel, drives off the road and kills him/herself, I care about the other people on the road. Slowly society is starting to grow in its disdain for such people, but much too slowly for my tastes. On the other hand, what the officer did was foolish, IMO. Taking down the plate number and reporting it, then attempting to pursue would have been a much more appropriate course of action.
 
ryknier said:
ok I am a big thing with parenting, where were they? and this kid couldn't have one day be a "normal" kid and then wake up and be like, HEY, I am gonna steal a car at 4 in the morning and run from cops! How did it lead up to this, not enough parenting? I think society is getting very lazy and letting tv, games, and computers take care of the children instead of actually watching them. And nothing wrong with corporal punishment, not saying thats the only way to teach a child but hey, the stare from the mother across the room was enough to shut me up and stop what I am doing, and trust me, I was afraid of the oak paddle my dad did use. And the funny thing was, when he said bend over on the couch... WE LISTENED!!!!! We didnt' run, we didn't cover our A$$ES or anything!
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I love this post. It reminded me of how I feel. Of how I grew up. Good kids can make poor decisions. It's how we learn, really. Often it is in group situations were the pressure to fit in is raised and one bad idea by one kid is all it takes. The article didn't say this child was with anyone else, that I could see. Also, as you pointed out, a kid doesn't usually go from "normality" to stealing cars and running from the cops at 4:00am. Parenting has to come into question in a situation like this.

I'm also really glad you brought up the TV babysitting so many parents do. There have been times when we have taken away TV rom our five year old for a week. Some of our friends who found out were like, "How can you stand it? How do you keep him occupied?" Trust me, I was apalled. My intent is not to keep my children occupied. Both my wife and I are very hands on people with our children. We have a lot of play time together throughout the day and especially in the evening. We end up watching very little prime time TV anymore and don't miss it a single bit. Our children know we love them. They know Mommy and Daddy will always listen to them. Always help them. Always be there for them. We never teach our children that anything is more important than them. It's never, "Be quiet, I'm missing the game," it's always, "Yes, sweetie, what did you need?"

Corporal punishment is a funny issue in our house. I'm a very physical guy. I give my wife a playful swat all the time, and she gets me too. It has since carried over into our five year old. He comes up, all smiles and whispers, "Daddy, let's go spank Mommy," so we go and stalk her. That boy gets spanked harder when we are playing than when he is in trouble. The difference is he is sad that he is in trouble and cries when he gets the lighter, punishment spanking. Never bruised him, never had rasied welts, even. It's the fact that he knows he has done something wrong. Oftentimes what we perceive is all the truth we know. The good news is spankings are often not necessary in our house. Taking away a treasured stuffed animal for a day (or week in the case of continued disobedience) is very effective, as is being sent to timeout on his bed. We'll hear sobbing for 15 minutes straight. It breaks your heart as a parent to have to do that, so maybe that's why so many parents make excuses for their children or simply refuse to discipline them even when they know they are wrong.

And, Oh, how I remember Dad telling me to bend over with his belt in his hand... Of course you didn't dare run, that would make it worse! My dad didn't play games. ;)
 
I was a little concerned posting my thoughts on this one for starting a war! In todays soceity walking through the stores at a grocery store or even ANYWHERE for that fact, seriously! there is more compensation than anything, if a kid in a store wants something, the parent either says go ahead and put it in the cart, or they "reason" with thier child to something less expensive (generalizing now folks), I have never seen a parent, and I mean NEVER! seen a parent refuse thier kid. To me that is just ugh I can't even tell you what that makes me think, I laugh in that its hilarious that the kids own thier parents, but at the same time, I am scared because in 10 years, this kid will be living next to me being this "untrained" spoiled brat that thinks he can get anything if he asks, or says please(the whole "please" issue is another story too), and if they don't get it, WHINE! How about a stern "NO" or if that doesn't work, a slap, and trust me, my mother never thought twice with the slap! And look at me, I look back at myslef and yea, I did deserve punishment. I look at myself and my parents, and I look at my other friends and there parenting, I am glad I turned out the way I did! I am very proud of my parents and I love them very much! And Harlock, I have gotten bruised a$$' from spankings Obviously this kid, needed help, or different parents.

Death isn't always the prettiest thing, but the cop had a choice to make a split second, and death was the account for it. My sorrow does follow!
 
If you want to see a child getting shot down yb his parents, come shopping with use sometime. We simply can't buy our child everything he wants because he wants everything. The cool thing is, he has his own money in a bank here at home. When we tell him he can use his own money, he usually balks. This one likes to save.
 
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