Water changes not lowering nitrites?

[NotGumbel]

I'm wondering if adding the anacharis in the nitrite stage of the cycle might be interfering in the cycling process--perhaps using up all the needed nutrients and thereby starving the nitrifying bacteria that would normally be consuming the nitrites???

That's a real possibility ... insufficient food for nitrite bacteria = arrested development?

Any possibility of fertilizers etc contributing to the problem? At present I use some fizz tabs by Jungle 1x per week, mainly for benefit of the anubias, and because it's more cost effective than Flourish for the volume of water.

Another idea--are you using enough dechlorinator? If chlorine is present in the change water, it may be killing off the nitrifying bacteria whenever you do a water change...

Yep, I use the recommended dosage of Aquasafe with each change.

I only have this problem in the 45g tank, by the way -- the 5.5g has no issues with nitrites or ammonia.

What puzzles me: I followed the advice of not changing water, and nitrites lowered. When I did a water change (replacement water containing zero nitrites and having been treated with dechlorinator), they went up. Maybe the light gravel vac I'd done?

:hang:

 

[NotGumbel]

Advice from a moderator on AquariumPros forum:

It lounds like you are in the process of having your tank cycle again. Especially if you repaced the filter, then you did loose most of the good bacteria and it will just have to cycle again. When you do water changes you only prolong the process of cycling the tank. As long as the fish are not looking stressed then I would not worry about the water changes. If they do start to seem stress then do a partial water change maybe up to 20%. Feed less (there will be less ammonia and therefor less nitrite produced. Don't let the goldfish "train you to feed them every time that you go neat the tank but you make sure that you train them that they cannot eat all of the time.​

Thus the reason I'd stopped doing water changes; for about 10 days nitrites stayed elevated, then dropped ... until I did a water change in an attempt to lower them further :thud:

 

[Roan Art]

Advice from a moderator on AquariumPros forum:

It lounds like you are in the process of having your tank cycle again. Especially if you repaced the filter, then you did loose most of the good bacteria and it will just have to cycle again. When you do water changes you only prolong the process of cycling the tank. . . .​

The above is a load of bunk.

Bryant,
Time for a recap, fix what I get wrong, kay?

1. You moved your biowheel to a new tank to cycle it
2. Filter on that tank died, bioculture compromised
3. Tank started to recycle again
4. Ammonia phase is over (how long did it go for?)
5. You cannot seem to lower the nitrites no matter how large a water change you try to do (been there, it sucks)
6. Added salt to detoxify (good advice and good move)
7. After 7 days, nitrites went down from 2.0 to .25
8. After a water change, the nitrites climbed again
9. Nitrites test 0 from tap, nitrates ~20, ammonia 0

Bryant --

What kind of test kit are you using?

Can you take some water to the LFS and get them to test it with a tube kit and give you the actual numbers?

What kind of dechlorinator are you using?

Also, test your KH, please.

Check the cartridges in the Bio Wheel. Are they slimy at all? If they are in the least bit slimy, rinse them in old tank water and gently get the slime (mulm off). Mulm can inhibit the formation of nitrite eaters.

Roan

 

[IceH2O]

I'm wondering if adding the anacharis in the nitrite stage of the cycle might be interfering in the cycling process--perhaps using up all the needed nutrients and thereby starving the nitrifying bacteria that would normally be consuming the nitrites???

Anacharis is a nitrAte eater not nitrite. Nitrite is a byproduct of ammonia. If your biowheel dried out you killed most of the bacteria, except whatever was on the cartridge. You're just cycling again.

As for the nitrites climbing with each water change.
What are the chances that the water you're putting back in is to hot or cold thus killing the nitrifying bacteria that has grown? It wouldn't take much to kill off enough to cause a huge swing in nitrites.

Another thing you can do for us. I know you've tested the tapwater, but can you post results of the tapwater after you add the dechlorinater? Maybe something there is a cause.

Every angle should be looked at because its always the last thing you expected to be it.

edit: I notice that the WPG on the tank in question is .5 wpg. That isn't going to be enough to let the anacharis live, it'll die and just cause more problems. There aren't alot of plants that will grow in that low a wattage.

 

[NotGumbel]

Hi Roan Art,

You basically have it! Only a few minor things I'd forgotten to mention.

By the time the biowheel filter failed, it had been running on the tank in conjunction with a Filstar for a few days. I replaced the biowheel filter with the Aquaclear, so it's no longer a factor.

Ammonia at that point rose, nitrites were minimal or zero; ammonia was gone after a week of water changes.

I use the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals tests for nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, and pH. It produces zero ammonia and nitrites from the water in my cycled 5.5g tank.

The tap water gives zero readings across the board; still gives zeros after I add Aquasafe and test again.

No KH test is available ... I ordered a GH/KH from Big Al's, and it was out of stock. My LFS has one that is dated 1994 (I kid you not); the next closest store (60 miles away) was out of stock for some time.

The only cleaning I've done on filters is to rinse media in a bucket of water taken from the tank; for the Filstar, I also have drained the old water, dead leaves, etc by dumping it into the sink.

During my recent water change, I lightly vacuumed the gravel - didn't get a lot of gunk out of there, as light feeding & lots of filtration seems to help with waste.

The Aquaclear contains foam, biomax, and floss. The Filstar contains two foam blocks that came with it, a phosphate removing pad (nonchemical), and floss. Nitrite issues were present both before and after any filter maintenance (except, of course, the dead biowheel filter whose demise started this merry ordeal).

Any additional info I can give, I'd be happy to supply it. I hate when things don't operate at logic ... and still befuddles me that a water change done with zero nitrite water yields no change in the tank's nitrite levels. :huh:

 

[Roan Art]

Anacharis is a nitrAte eater not nitrite. Nitrite is a byproduct of ammonia. If your biowheel dried out you killed most of the bacteria, except whatever was on the cartridge. You're just cycling again.

Also, anacharis and other "nitrite eating plants" also consume ammonia. The reason people think they are nitrite eaters is because the ammonia doesn't make it to the nitrite stage, and thus they don't see the nitrites. Just a misconception.

What are the chances that the water you're putting back in is to hot or cold thus killing the nitrifying bacteria that has grown? It wouldn't take much to kill off enough to cause a huge swing in nitrites.

Nod, but he has fish in there. I doubt he's chilling or cooking 'em.

Another thing you can do for us. I know you've tested the tapwater, but can you post results of the tapwater after you add the dechlorinater? Maybe something there is a cause.

You reading my mind again, Ice-boy?

Anacharis *will* grow at .5. I had some in my tank at .3 for a long time. It gets long and spindly, but it grows.

Roan

 

[Roan Art]

Bryant,

Can you humor me with something? Can you get some Prime and use that for a couple of water changes and see what happens?

See, the thing is that AquaSafe doesn't just work on dechlorinating the water, it also removes "heavy metals" and "provides slime coat". IME the products that "provide slime coat" contain aloe vera. I think it may be entirely possible that the aloe in the AquaSafe could be either killing the nitrite eating guys or preventing them from doing their job.

Normally this may not be seen in a cycled tank because the nitrite eaters are established and in good supply. However since you don't have an established colony their presence is pretty lean.

Roan

 

[NotGumbel]

Anacharis is a nitrAte eater not nitrite. Nitrite is a byproduct of ammonia. If your biowheel dried out you killed most of the bacteria, except whatever was on the cartridge. You're just cycling again.

Biowheel is gone - sorry I wasn't more clear on that. I have an Aquaclear 70 in its place.

As for the nitrites climbing with each water change.
What are the chances that the water you're putting back in is to hot or cold thus killing the nitrifying bacteria that has grown? It wouldn't take much to kill off enough to cause a huge swing in nitrites.

Seems to be very close, though I don't use a thermometer to check. The tank is not heated, and stays 72 or thereabouts.

Another thing you can do for us. I know you've tested the tapwater, but can you post results of the tapwater after you add the dechlorinater? Maybe something there is a cause.

Everything's fine after adding the dechlorinator too.

Every angle should be looked at because its always the last thing you expected to be it.

Isn't that the truth? LOL I don't mind checking each angle, just maybe helpin identify new angles.

edit: I notice that the WPG on the tank in question is .5 wpg. That isn't going to be enough to let the anacharis live, it'll die and just cause more problems. There aren't alot of plants that will grow in that low a wattage.

Anacharis and anubias are currently growing well - not as well as plants in my smaller tank of course, but the anacharis has done surprisingly well

I appreciate the feedback and questions -- cool avatar, by the way!

 

[NotGumbel]

Bryant,

Can you humor me with something? Can you get some Prime and use that for a couple of water changes and see what happens?

See, the thing is that AquaSafe doesn't just work on dechlorinating the water, it also removes "heavy metals" and "provides slime coat". IME the products that "provide slime coat" contain aloe vera. I think it may be entirely possible that the aloe in the AquaSafe could be either killing the nitrite eating guys or preventing them from doing their job.

Normally this may not be seen in a cycled tank because the nitrite eaters are established and in good supply. However since you don't have an established colony their presence is pretty lean.

Roan

I'd humor you with anything you'd ask, as it's worth trying ... except I do not have access to Prime. No store within 60 miles carries it. (Yes, welcome to my world :duh: ) I'd been looking for it to try as an alternative to Aquasafe. AmmoLock is the only other conditioner I've seen available.

My other tank was cycled using Aquasafe, though there's of course a different bioload and different volume of water to deal with.

I'm going to start blaming New Years as the culprit - nitrites went up and dating life went down immediately afterwards! :laugh:

Bryant

 

[NotGumbel]

I thought I read somewhere that you shouldnt do a 50% or more water change during cycling because you will suck out alot of the bactaria in the water cange and that will extend the cycling time out further? I dont have first hand knowledge though... my last three tanks really didnt need cycling when I started them.

I was trying to balance two things: doing sufficient water changes to properly cycle the tank, and making sure the fish were comfortable. I hadn't had to do much in the way of cycling for quite some time thru keeping established bacteria colonies, and my 5.5g cycled quickly.