Where do these elusive bacteria live anyway?

rajseth

Learning FW
Feb 6, 2007
106
0
0
central NJ
Yes I am a nooB :confused:
I have read all kinds of information from seemingly authoritative sources that

1 - they live in the gravel
2 - they live in the filter
3 - they live on everything
4 - they prefer to live on sand

Bacteria itself
1 - nitrobacter and nitrosomonas are the ones
2 - nitrosospira and nitrospira are the ones


Can someone shed light on the subject:help:
 
Yes I am a nooB :confused:
I have read all kinds of information from seemingly authoritative sources that

1 - they live in the gravel
2 - they live in the filter
3 - they live on everything
4 - they prefer to live on sand

Pretty much 3...they are everywhere, and poreous surfaces are even better.

Bacteria itself
1 - nitrobacter and nitrosomonas are the ones
2 - nitrosospira and nitrospira are the ones

Frankly, studies are still not 100% sure, but some more recent sources state it is Nitrosospira, Nitrospira and Nitrosomonas

:

Hope that helps....
 
They pretty much just need surface area to cling onto, oxygen, and water circulation. Filter media happens to have a large surface area and most likely the best circulation in your aquarium. This is why people sometimes say that all of the bacteria live in your filter which really isn't true. I would say however that the majority of the bacteria live inside the filter media, but I couldn't actually put a number on how much. I'm thinking it could easily be in the 80-95% range though.
 
Gravel as well. The bacteria form a film on the gravel that is difficult to remove with washing, and cannot be removed with a simple gravel vacuuming.

Just look at the area that your gravel covers. Now look at all those hemispheres of individual gravel bits that are in direct contact with the water column. If your gravel isn't smooth, there's more area as well. That's a lot of surface area. Gravel-borne bacteria alone are a big contributer.

If you have any sort of circulation through the gravel via UGF (airlift, powerhead, or manifolding direct to a filter inlet) or via RUGF, this greatly multiplies the area available for beneficial bacteria.

I have a powered UGF w/ plants and CO2 (growing like crazy; need to prune today), and have changed out all media for sterilized media with no change in parameters. Plenty of bacteria in the gravel to do the job. In a case like that, the gravel-borne bacteria assumes 100% of the N2 cycle until the filters can pull in some gunk and re-seed themselves with bacteria; then, they share the load once again.

v/r, N-A
 
3 - they live on everything
filter gravel decorations

They pretty much just need surface area to cling onto, oxygen, and water circulation. Filter media happens to have a large surface area and most likely the best circulation in your aquarium. This is why people sometimes say that all of the bacteria live in your filter which really isn't true. I would say however that the majority of the bacteria live inside the filter media, but I couldn't actually put a number on how much. I'm thinking it could easily be in the 80-95% range though.

There is all this advice out there about seeding the new tanks with filter squeezings, gravel in a sock, hang filter in cycled tank etc. They all imply different distributions of these bacteria. Then there are the warnings about changing gravel => spike, changing filter => spike, etc - again with different, and conflicting, implications:huh:

Surely someone has more objective/empirical observations that can shed some light.....

Essentially, if everything were critical, the hobby would not be this prevalent. Then again, as I set up my tanks, with the final goal being two 50Gs connected, I am trying to figure out where to build in safeguards against failures. Seems like the more places one can create hospitality for these bacteria the better. However, no point building redundancy in the parts that don't really help much.
 
It isn't all that complex. The desired bacteria need 4 things: 1. A surface to which to adhere. 2. Oxygen. 3 Food (ammonia and nitrite). 4. Water.

Bacterial colonies are constantly adjusting in two ways. First, they size to the available sources of food and oxygen- add more food and they multiply, decrease the available food and they die back. Bacterial colonies will always size up or down in this respect. Second, the individual bacteria are always dying off in some places and being replaced with new ones, so the concentrations in a tank while they may be stable in terms of numbers are not constant in terms of where the individudals may be. A corallary of this is that the colony will tend to outgrow the food source and then die back to the appropriate size.

The bacteria are opportunistic and colonize the greatest where the best/most available sources of food and oxygen are (bio-wheels are designed to create an oxygen rich home). Normally this is inside filter media. However, any hard surface in a tank will act as a home to the bacteria. The top part of the substrate is another good place for bacteria to colonize due to the water bringing food and oxygen to a vast surface area where bacteria can live. As you move deeper into the substrate the circulation drops off sharply and the substrate becomes much less habitable. This is the principle behind ugf/rugf- by forcing water through the substrate it allows a large volume of "media" to get plenty of food and oxygen carried in by the water moving through the gravel.

The purpose of seeding a tank is to jump start the cycle. The more bacteria you start with, the faster the colony can reproduce to consume the available food sources. However, the other side of this coin is when you remove bacteria from tank A to seed tank B, you must be careful not to remove too much from a single tank or the existing tank will have a bacteria shortage and you get an ammonia spike there.

Compared to other bacteria, the good ones in a tank are relatively slow growing. Under the most optimal conditions it will take 12 hours or more to double in size. That is why seeding can greatly accellerate the cycling process- the more you start with, the faster they can "double".

One misconception about filtration is that more = more bacteria. If you have a fully cycled tank with a single filter on it and you add a second identical filter, you dont get twice the bacteria. What you get in the longer run is two filters each with 1/2 the bacteria the single one had. Filters don't feed bateria, they just provide optimal homes for the number a given tank needs.

I hope this has cleared up some of the mystery :-)
 
There is all this advice out there about seeding the new tanks with filter squeezings, gravel in a sock, hang filter in cycled tank etc. They all imply different distributions of these bacteria. Then there are the warnings about changing gravel => spike, changing filter => spike, etc - again with different, and conflicting, implications:huh:

i dont see it as conflicting info at lest i dont see conflicting info from this site.

its just different ways of doing things. in the end it all does the same thing. one might be better then the other but still works.

about changing the filter or gravel your taking away the bacteria so it might spike. taking off a filter is more likely to spike then changing the gravel.

One misconception about filtration is that more = more bacteria. If you have a fully cycled tank with a single filter on it and you add a second identical filter, you dont get twice the bacteria. What you get in the longer run is two filters each with 1/2 the bacteria the single one had. Filters don't feed bateria, they just provide optimal homes for the number a given tank needs.

I hope this has cleared up some of the mystery :-)

one thing that isnt said very much.... i know i dont add it much to my posts... i guess i am just lazy. there will only be as much bacteria in the tank to remove the waste. 2 filters are more for back up and greater mechanical filtration. its just like when you add a bunch of fish to a cycled tank and you get a ammonia spike. the bacteria just havent been able to catch up to all the new waste.
 
TwoTankAmin, I really like the way you explained that. Should be a sticky on its own.

v/r, N-A
 
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